I think this thread still warrants public discussion for better understanding by all...
On Dec 22, 2008, at 6:24 PM, Fletcher, Boyd C. CIV US USJFCOM JFL J9935 wrote:
*** any chance you could arrange a telecon with the developers and a select number of folks from the mailing list so we can discuss the issues?
Gathering the security relevant requirements and clearly articulating them internally is a key aspect to my job. If you feel I do not understand your needs, then please do not hesitate to provide that feedback. The discussion on this list is one way that can happen along with my interaction with you all as customers and of course your submissions to RadarWeb, to name a few.
*** its good that they are working on a more permanent solution and I’m glad we have a partial fix but a over a year for a final fix seems to be a bit long of a wait to fix this type of problem.
You have a work-a-round for this now and improvements come with time.
*** true, but Apple support does even bother to ask those questions. they just say: implemented as designed. The better solution (both technically and for better customer service) would have been to ask the bug submitter for clarification on why the current approach is a problem and what would be an acceptable solution. doesn’t mean its going to be implemented but at least there was a dialog that will ultimately help the developers understand the problem set better.
There seems to be some confusion as to Groups and Responsibilities here, so let's start with that first.
- RADAR "Problem Tracking System" (i.e. RadarWeb) Tool for managing changes with Apple SW / HW Products
- AppleCare: "Apple Support" Group (Service) for Apple Products (HW/SW) and the released features
- ADR: Apple Developer Relations -- Works w/ *registered developers* with respect to products and Business Issues
- DTS: Developer Technical Support -- Works w/ *registered developers* with respect to products and Tech Issues
- Engineering: SW / HW Engineering focused on Product Development / Enhancements / Fixes
- Enterprise CEs: Enterprise Consulting Engineers (Team I am on) - Dual Facing: 1) Outward: Customers; 2) Inward: Eng/AC/PM/ADR
- .... the list goes on...
I do not believe you mean to say "Apple Support" unless you indicate that your submission under your Support Contract are not including questions about the environment / issues ? I believe you mean to refer to responses you receive back on submissions you have made to RadarWeb. Since I have not received any RADAR#s from you to look into, I cannot honest comment on your specific situation. What I can say is that the process is contrary to what you are indicating. If the process / issue is clearly articulated in the submission then there is not much to need further. Any submission could include your suggested approach for consideration. It is frequently not necessary to go back and forth on certain submission due to the specific nature of the submission. If you are receiving frequent "implemented as designed" then it may be that you are really looking for further technical description of the implementation since it may not be clear. You (and others) can also request more or improved technical documentation on services via RadarWeb as well.