August 2006 - Darwin-dev - lists.apple.com

Problem with latest xnu
by Rui Paulo 19 Aug '06

19 Aug '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Thanks in advance. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… Hi. I've built xnu-792.10.96 from source and installed according to instructions found on macosforge.org. I think everything is working except for the built in ethernet card. The following shows up on dmesg: AppleYukon: error - PCI express protocol violation errorunable to start recv logic ath_chan_set: unable to restart recv logic AppleYukon: error - unexpected IRQ Status error AppleYukon: 00000000,00000000 skgehw - cppSkDrvEvent - SK_DRV_ADAP_FAIL display: Not usable AppleYukon - en0 link active, 100-Mbit, full duplex, symmetric flow control enabled AppleYukon: error - PCI express protocol violation error AppleYukon: error - unexpected IRQ Status error AppleYukon: 00000000,00000000 skgehw - cppSkDrvEvent - SK_DRV_ADAP_FAIL Any idea of what might be the problem ? Also, what's the best way to revert to the kernel that comes with 10.4.7 ? This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Xcode 2.3 source gone
by Andrew Gallatin 18 Aug '06

18 Aug '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Greg Hurrell writes: > > But it seems to me that Apple never intended to make their open > source effort community-driven, and doing so would not necessarily be Yes, exactly, and that's what is so irritating. > 1. Public relations > 2. Ethical reciprocity: give back something to those that gave to you > (Apache, GCC, FreeBSD etc) WRT to GCC, that is also a legal reciprocity. > 3. To allow developers working at low levels to have insight into the > workings of the OS, to make their products work better FWIW: I actually fit in the 3rd catagory above. I'm a developer who does drivers for MacOSX. I don't, and probably never will, run MacOSX on my desktop. I use the source mainly as a reference, and a substitute for good documentation. Anyway, I'm just trying to point out how much more Darwin could be if Apple wasn't so paranoid. I'll crawl back into my hole now. Drew _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Xcode 2.3 source gone
by Greg Hurrell 18 Aug '06

18 Aug '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Basically it boils down to Apple's open source (for at least the kernel) is read-only, and only when they are in the mood to make it available. That's fine as it is their code and their license. But my original point still stands: Darwin, and Xnu in particular is far from a shining example of what an open source project should be. G _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… El 18/08/2006, a las 21:05, Andrew Gallatin escribió: There are many was that something can be open source. "Community- driven" is one way which you seem to particularly value but it is not the only way. Apple's Darwin is another way; as you've said it's not really driven by the community, rather, all the work is basically done by Apple, mostly behind closed doors, and periodically released to the public. But it seems to me that Apple never intended to make their open source effort community-driven, and doing so would not necessarily be an "improvement" in their eyes. They always intended to write/ maintain all the code themselves. They give back the source for three reasons, probably: 1. Public relations 2. Ethical reciprocity: give back something to those that gave to you (Apache, GCC, FreeBSD etc) 3. To allow developers working at low levels to have insight into the workings of the OS, to make their products work better None of these goals require the community to be intimately involved in the process of making Darwin. Apple will probably make the community more involved as time goes by (Mac OS Forge, WebKit, for example) but only insofar as it doesn't get in the way of those three goals. And seeing as it's their OS that's fine by me; there are plenty of totally free, out-in-the-open alternatives if that's what you value. Needless to say even this latter form of open source is better than closed source. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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RE: system install date
by David Litwin 18 Aug '06

18 Aug '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Thread-index: AcbC/FM+1m2K+B2ySp2IyejiFTGVFQAAQs2w Thread-topic: system install date That sounds like just the thing I'm looking for. Thanks! David Litwin BigFix, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: Jonas Maebe Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 12:27 PM To: Darwin Development Subject: Re: system install date On 18 aug 2006, at 20:55, David Litwin wrote: > Interestingly my CDIS.custom shows a later date (June 31 2006 vs. June > 18 2006) than the BaseSystem.pkg, so I'm not sure this will give me > what > I want. I found a better candidate: have a look at the contents of /var/log/ OSInstall.custom CDIS.custom contains (iirc) root's system language (i.e., the language used by a.o. loginwindow) and could indeed theoretically be changed after the installation (although it rarely happens). Jonas _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: system install date
by Jonas Maebe 18 Aug '06

18 Aug '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On 18 aug 2006, at 20:55, David Litwin wrote: Jonas _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… Interestingly my CDIS.custom shows a later date (June 31 2006 vs. June 18 2006) than the BaseSystem.pkg, so I'm not sure this will give me what I want. I found a better candidate: have a look at the contents of /var/log/ OSInstall.custom CDIS.custom contains (iirc) root's system language (i.e., the language used by a.o. loginwindow) and could indeed theoretically be changed after the installation (although it rarely happens). This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Re: Xcode 2.3 source gone
by Andrew Gallatin 18 Aug '06

18 Aug '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Shawn Erickson writes: > On 8/18/06, Andrew Gallatin <gallatin(a)cs.duke.edu> wrote: > > > What possible details in the XNU source are specific to the mac pro > > and are something that an untrained monkey could not have deduced > > from Apple's partnership with Intel? > > Those untrained monkeys happened to be guessing all over the map on > what would be in the Mac Pro and the XNU source could have narrowed > down what was coming in much more detail (with a minor level of > analysis). Again, how? Xnu doesn't include drivers, which is what really differentiates the Mac Pro from any other x86 box. AFAIK, 10.4.7 isn't 64-bit on a Mac Pro (don't have one yet), but even if it were, (nearly) all of Intel's processors are 64-bit these days, as are AMDs. Nothing to be learned there. Etc. Etc. Basically it boils down to Apple's open source (for at least the kernel) is read-only, and only when they are in the mood to make it available. That's fine as it is their code and their license. But my original point still stands: Darwin, and Xnu in particular is far from a shining example of what an open source project should be. Drew _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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RE: system install date
by David Litwin 18 Aug '06

18 Aug '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Thread-index: AcbCnRvNEEbhTA5YSqyhwVj8m8hhEAAWlFbw Thread-topic: system install date Interestingly my CDIS.custom shows a later date (June 31 2006 vs. June 18 2006) than the BaseSystem.pkg, so I'm not sure this will give me what I want. David Litwin BigFix, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: Jonas Maebe On 18 aug 2006, at 07:50, Brian Bechtel wrote: > If you want the date the > original system install occurred, I would assume the date on the > BaseSystem.pkg would be okay. /var/log/CDIS.custom might be more reliable, since future (and past?) systems may not necessarily use the name "BaseSystem.pkg" (while this CDIS.custom has been in use since the public beta as far as I remember). Jonas _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Re: Xcode 2.3 source gone
by Shawn Erickson 18 Aug '06

18 Aug '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=uSPccsaCytRrl3t7t0c4kxSk3wsAWB3bvB2ko/S0FBCh97KtwCbVsX5aRY7zmC0EbOw2Ucc1z7qt+5M9xPTKpe3bkwdPGtTcD7lUR2XQ4Xr/o5LKrXsA+RYxxZIN/Ro1qD6Wmx8JvO63J1jrmQ/qGBLaUQ9txF0nlDV7e1MOx1c= On 8/18/06, Andrew Gallatin <gallatin(a)cs.duke.edu> wrote: What possible details in the XNU source are specific to the mac pro and are something that an untrained monkey could not have deduced from Apple's partnership with Intel? Those untrained monkeys happened to be guessing all over the map on what would be in the Mac Pro and the XNU source could have narrowed down what was coming in much more detail (with a minor level of analysis). Apple depends heavily on marketing on their terms to garner high levels of anticipation and even mystery, as a result they keep things close to the their chest. Anyway Apple defines what it wants to keep secret and when... it is their right to do so... you may not like it but that doesn't change their right to do it (so who cares what you or anyone else thinks folks could have figured out without XNU). Additionally the delay in releasing XNU was only partially related to keeping specifics about the Mac Pro in house (that aspect really only applies to 10.4.7). The other factors involved likely include repackaging/compartmentalizing of various drivers and modules that contained code that Apple doesn't have the right to or want to release as open source (this obviously has happened and Apple even made statements to the fact). Related to that Apple legal likely had to review what was being release to ensure that they didn't break any internal and external agreements (legal... god does it take time). -Shawn _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Xcode 2.3 source gone
by Andrew Gallatin 18 Aug '06

18 Aug '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com Fletcher Sandbeck writes: > Apple has been planning to release the MacPro at WWDC in August. They did not want to release the XNU source until the MacPro was announced/released. They could not discuss ANY details about the MacPro. So, they could not reveal why the XNU source could not be released. > > You may disagree with this policy of product secrecy, but I think once you understand it you can understand why Apple sometimes makes some of the decisions they do and why they are not able to communicate as clearly with all of us as we would like them to. It is not ideal, but it is understandable. What possible details in the XNU source are specific to the mac pro and are something that an untrained monkey could not have deduced from Apple's partnership with Intel? Drew _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Xcode 2.3 source gone
by Fletcher Sandbeck 18 Aug '06

18 Aug '06

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com On 2006-08-18 at 12:51 by gallatin(a)cs.duke.edu (Andrew Gallatin): >Apple could learn a lot from Sun about how to do a better job >reconciling transparency with business needs. Apple generally announces products either when they ship or with a small window until they ship. Prior to the product announcement you will not hear anything out of Apple about the product. Apple has very tight security about future product details. I've spoken to Apple employees the day before MacWorld and they did not know what was going to be announced the next day. They just knew all the same rumors that everyone else knew. Apple has been planning to release the MacPro at WWDC in August. They did not want to release the XNU source until the MacPro was announced/released. They could not discuss ANY details about the MacPro. So, they could not reveal why the XNU source could not be released. You may disagree with this policy of product secrecy, but I think once you understand it you can understand why Apple sometimes makes some of the decisions they do and why they are not able to communicate as clearly with all of us as we would like them to. It is not ideal, but it is understandable. [fletcher] _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Darwin-dev mailing list (Darwin-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/darwin-dev/site_archiver%40lists.app… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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