Re: little rant 1.4 and WO
Re: little rant 1.4 and WO
- Subject: Re: little rant 1.4 and WO
- From: George Domurot <email@hidden>
- Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 08:35:44 -0500
I too agree. It's poor (if not lack of) service. I'm sure the Apple
Store (as well as the many other internal Apple WO customers) knew not
to update their servers. We too should have know, no excuses.
On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 05:39 PM, Ricardo Strausz wrote:
I am with Jim...
what Mike is suggesting is: NEVER TRUST IN THE UPDATER
This can not be the politics of a wide enterprise like Apple.
They should have a coordinator-department which may verify
compatibilities between different versions and a quality department
which verifies what this lasts says, and do all these befoure uploding
any peace of software...
It is better to delay a couple of day a release, than put in risk the
quality-image of Apple; do not forget that there are lots of users
which do not even undestand what does the "compatibility" word realy
means...
Dino
On miircoles, marz 12, 2003, at 11:03 America/Mexico_City, Mike Little
wrote:
I know the pickle you're in. However, consider the operation
difficulties Apple has. In all likelyhood, the WebObjects guys have
no real idea what the Java implementation guys are doing and vice
versa. To hold up the Java 1.4.1 release for a relatively minor
product like WebObjects just isn't practical.
This might be a little tough to see in the case of Apple, but when I
was working at IBM on WebSphere, we had no clue what the DB2 folks
were doing, or for that matter, what Sun was doing with with the JVM.
We were real careful about claiming compatibility with anything. At
IBM if a customer was trying to run on anything other than a
published known good configuration, their solution was simply
unsupported.
Now Apple is in a better position to control these difficulties, but
these problems still exist none the less. Of course the same rules
for mitigating problems of this sort still hold -- don't install
until compatibility is verified.
With enterprise class solutions this is the norm.
Mike
On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 10:48AM, James Mooney
<email@hidden> wrote:
Mike
I appreciate with your reply if this were open source. I have the
ability to scruntinize the code and know full well ahead of time
that I
am on my own. My point is that there appears to be a failure of
timely
communication( a minor issue in this case). Had the post on this
list
appeared prior to the official release via the software updater, I
would not have bothered downloading the update and waited for the WO
patch. Now I step on glass not knowing if I am going to get cut or
not.
Apple has on a regular basis posted software updates on the web
site
and then after a couple of days, includes it into the auto updater.
During this period, news has a chance to make the rounds of the
impact
of the new software on existing platforms and products.
I applaud Apple for getting this new version out. I also applaud
them
for being on the ball to get a patch out. Timing and communication,
in
my opinion, were anemic. That is my point. A timely heads up of a
potential problem is all I am looking for. Heck, would it be too
much
to ask that since Apple knew there were issues, that the installer
checked the system first to determine whether WO was installed and if
so.....to flag the user of issues. << that would be smart,
professional, and classy.
Jim
On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 10:57 AM, Mike Little wrote:
I have to respectfully disagree....
Web application server environments are by their nature complex and
made up a variety of different products. Web server, application
server, database server, directory server etc. The ultimate
responsibility of verifying compatibility clearly lies with the
solution provider(you) and not a product vendor. Components of a
solution should be assumed to be incompatible, until verified and
officially supported by the vendors (assuming your solution isn't an
ad hoc configuration) and then by the solution providers.
Apple never said WO 5.2 and Java 1.4.1 were compatible with one
another... And until they do, they aren't.
Mike
On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 09:44AM, James Mooney
<email@hidden> wrote:
It would seem prudent that there are a couple of ways to inform WO
users of this issue of incompatibility.
The current list post from Webobject is a little too late.
I saw the update and allowed it be installed on my machine. I read
the
blurps noted in the update and saw no mention of issues with WO. It
would have been helpful to have at least a notice in the installer
update that WO and 1.4 are not yet ready to be married. Update at
your
own risk.....
Something along those lines would have been a responsible move. I
checked postings on this list and this is the first time in two
days
of
an official position on compatibility.
Was someone asleep at the wheel? There is no logic in posting a
software update when it jeopardizes the integrity of a working
product
in the same family in which the update is derived. So my
installation
is potentially hosed. Could you please post the procedures to
bring
my
system back into a stable product. I also downloaded the developer
tools update as well. How do I go back two days? If this is not
possible, could you please post reported troubled areas that are
currently reported as known issues? Water I should not tread on
so to
speak.
Jim
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