Re: WebObjects vs. Microsoft's .NET
Re: WebObjects vs. Microsoft's .NET
- Subject: Re: WebObjects vs. Microsoft's .NET
- From: "Jonathan Fleming" <email@hidden>
- Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 10:57:47 +0100
From: Ricardo Strausz <email@hidden>
To: Goodbye Bill <email@hidden>
CC: <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: WebObjects vs. Microsoft's .NET
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 15:42:05 -0500
Hi Goodbye!
On miircoles, mayo 28, 2003, at 23:18 America/Mexico_City, Goodbye Bill
wrote:
First, thanks to everyone that has helped me move from a Microsoft
platform
to a Mac. Second, I need the advice from a few of you that can take a
minute or two to be brutally honest. What the heck is WebObjects good
for?
To build object-oriented apps to be deployed over the web.
It also includes ---my favorite part--- EOF the best object-oriented
framework to manage db-connectivity, and the "unsuported" Cocoa/EO to use
it inside OSX(S).
I have been developing on a Microsoft platform for many years -- over the
last decade or so, all web stuff. I WANT to move to a Mac but I am
finding
my hands tied. I just spent $700 on a copy of WebObjects, but it seems to
be worthless. Maybe it's me.
Since you don't mind being brutally honest I'm gonna say it's you. Not
because you're not a good developer but because you lack in experience using
webObjects and probably a Mac too although you will find it easier and
faster to learn than you will WebObjects.
For the most part why did you change from PC to Mac anyhow. WebObjects works
equally well on a PC running Windows 2000 (tested platform) and XP
(unsupported as yet).
Maybe its the online docs.
Well, you could have a point there, many parts of the Apple docs on
WebObjects either have faults in them or are plain hard to understand. Best
to ask the list if any of the docs get you confussed
Still, it doesn't look like WebObjects really DOES anything.
I don't know how long it will take but you will be eating your words soon.
WebObjects has managed to frustrate just about every developer that has uses
it, but they soon got over that. We've all been there and at times even
years down the line continue to hit stumbling blocks again and again.
You cannot mean that; with WO you CAN build, from a db-based web-server
with out writing a single line of code (D2W and D2J), to a full customized
app... no that ease, but it CAN BE DONE!
When you realy learn WO (at least in a, say, 50% base) you will find that
almost everything you may nead is there and you CAN do it writing VERY FEW
LINES OF CODE. Of course, such a gema cannot be learned in a couple of
months... I know EOF since 1995 and I am still learning.
From what I can tell, WebObjects brings EOModler to the table and will
make
life easier for the "database-to-UI" tasks.
I'd say think of it as the middle man connecting your backend java projects
(java code/classes written in ProjectBuilder) with your front end UI, the
web or HTML stuff written in WOBuilder.
Not presicely... EOF is the back-end and the front-end may be WOBuilder (I
mean HTML), Cocoa, Java Swing or even a UNIX terminal; EOModeler is only
one more app which does back-and-forth engine of a db... in fact, EOModeler
uses EOF (and the Java-bridge).
Apparently, if I want to do
anything OTHER than read from a database I've got to code a separate Java
piece and then find some way to plug that piece into the site that I've
created using WebObjects.
The variables and methods you create in your java code will be available for
you to connect to in WOBuilder. It can be a simple case of drag and connect
to link to the attributes of the dynamic elements in WOBuilder. You are
making it seem harder than it is. Put it this way, I am not a trained Java
developer nor a networking guru or a fancy web designer but I use webobjects
and have managed some fancy stuff that i never thought i could do for myself
and this has come with a lot of help from the list. When in doubt seek the
list's advise and someone will try to help.
I am not a WO expert but, if you are right in this, you are right also in
complain... so, you cannot be right (jiji).
Any component is generated with its own Java-source... you can write code
inside there or simply add your custom object to the project and connect
the objects in WOBuilder.
In my example application, I am trying to create a web-based email service
(just for the learning aspect). Based on what I am finding (or NOT
finding), here is what I appear to need...
Why don't you copy one of the examples in
C:\Apple\Developer\Examples\JavaWebObjects and pull it apart. Look at the
attributes in WOBuilder elements and then from the bottom left hand corner
of the WOBuilder window you will see a button that says: Edit Source, click
on this and choose View Source File, that will take you to the Jave File in
WOProjectBuilder and you can start to see how the interconnectivity is
working.
First of all, this is not a simple task to a beginner to start with...
... the database is modeled using EOModler;
agreed
Yap!
... the web-based front end is created using WO and ProjectBuilder;
and,
When you say Front end i think of this as you meaning HTML, then this would
be done in WOBuilder but that is static on it's own, to get dynasm into your
HTML you need connection to your java code/classes. To go one step further
EOModeller will be thrown in to link your data to those dynamic elements
It realy depends; you want it on the web, then only use WOBuilder.
... I will need to create a separate Java applet for any parsing
or manipulation of files and find some way to get the WO front end to use
those Java pieces.
Forget applets, you're dealing with web applications full stop. But if you
want to later create an applet to run within WebObjects, you can.
NOP! as i said, you can write your code in the Component's java-file. (am I
right list?)
Is this correct?
Not presicely!
If so, then what did I spend the $700 for? In .NET, for
example, everything is done in one IDE, with one language, and one set of
class files for everything -- although you CAN break out the various
classes
and objects into separate projects, you are not forced to.
Would that language be Java? If so it's the same thing with with WebObjects,
WebObjects is a pure jave IDE brought together by a set of frameworks and
various application such as WOProjectBuilder, WOBuilder and EOModeller, the
fact that they do not sit in one UI like many IDE's does not mean it is not
and IDE in my opinion. An Intergrated Development Environment to me means
tools that work together for one common goal. WebObjects does that.
So? the same with WO... any difference? does .NET has an equivalent to D2W?
to D2J? to EOF?
to Cocoa????? came on!!!!!
Can someone tell me what I'm missing?
I agree with Ricardo, EXPERIENCE. I've been using WebObjects since version
4.5 when it was made available to the general public for $700 as opposed to
the $50,000 price tag it once held, that was only three to five years ago,
the first year and a half I got nowhere with it and gave up but everything
that I wanted to do didn't seem possible in other packages or not as
WebObjects mad it seem in it's tutorials. I was in a catch 22 situation and
so went on a 10 week course to learn Java primarily and everything got
easier form there. Once you know Java, learning the WebObjects java API was
much easier.
I hope I've added to the help you're seeking
Jonathan ;^)
Experience??
a name?
Dino
http://homepage.mac.com/strausz
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