Re: Why WebObjects is no success
Re: Why WebObjects is no success
- Subject: Re: Why WebObjects is no success
- From: Jean Pierre Malrieu <email@hidden>
- Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 10:17:11 +0100
Le 28 fivr. 04, ` 07:01, email@hidden a icrit
:
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 21:23:58 -0500
> To: email@hidden
> From: Wolf Naegeli <email@hidden>
> Subject: Why WebObjects is no success
>
> In market penetration, I mean.
>
> It's not because of the product proper, I bet.
> It's also not merely because of poor, virtually absent marketing.
> It's because of the packaging
>
> Apple claims it's quick and easy to get started with WO...
> That might be true if one's needs are covered by their example D2W
> applications, but has been completely opposite to my experience.
>
> I looked at using WebObjects two or three times over the years when
> starting new projects that had simple needs at first but good
> potential to grow into big complex sites.
>
> Being on short deadlines, I thought I could use D2W initially to
> quickly whip something into shape using the "out of the box"
> features--as claimed by WO glossies--and then gradually learn more
> about it as needs arose and time permitted.
>
> I upgraded to the latest versions, but every time, I found that the
> documentation was incomplete and basic examples were missing. Two
> things in particular were stumbling blocks that caused us to abandon
> the idea of using WO.
>
> 1) Needing to put a read-only database table on the Web, I was unable
> to find instructions, nor to quickly figure out myself, how to
> eliminate or bypass the log-in page that D2W insisted on generating,
> without breaking the application, that is. The login page was not
> only unnecessary, but unacceptable for the planned site.
From Apple docs, "Developping with direct to web" (pdf p. 21):
"You can modify the login page (Main.wo) to provide any behavior or
appearance you like. For example, you can add your own
password-checking logic, as shown in the section Adding
Authentication to the Main Component (page 98). "
Now did you look at the main.java file?
You will find a defaultPage() method that you can modify to return
whatever D2W component you need... (look at apple pdf mentionned above
at page 81 for an example)
If you want to use the rule system instead, you can use the following
keys (again from apple docs):
startupEntityName
Type: String
Appears: Rule's key (right-hand side)
The name of entity used on startup page. Since the startup page is a
query-all page by default, this key is not used in a Direct to Web
application generated by the wizard. If you change the default startup
task (see startupTask) to one that requires an entity, use this key.
startupTask
Type: String
Appears: Rule's key (right-hand side)
The startup page task. Defaults to "queryAll". If you override this
default and specify a task that requires an entity, you need to specify
the value for the startupEntityName key.
I am not programming with D2W, and thus not familiar with the
documentation. Yet it took me five minutes to locate the info you
needed...
>
> I'm sure I would eventually have figured it out if I had had the
> luxury to dig into it, but completing the tutorial and browsing the
> manuals didn't get me there. At that point, there was no time left to
> waste, so I put WO back on the shelf. Instead I used tools I was
> already familiar with! That decision also seemed the most prudent
> because I didn't see any documentation on how to add more features to
> a D2W application.
You should have asked the lists (apple, omnigroup, yahoo ) for the
features you were interested in. People would have helped you getting
started.
Project wonder also has a lot of features to offer.
>
>
> 2) Another time, I was trying to put together a straightforward input
> form. (I don't know much Java--though I've worked with more than a
> dozen other programming and scripting languages and usually have
> little trouble picking up a new one.) Nothing in the materials that
> came with the box, on the CDs, and on Apple's Developer website
> explained clearly and completely, how to actually enable check boxes,
> radio buttons, and pull-down menus.
You are probably right (I did not go through the tutorials in 5.2
though). The use of basic dynamic elements is not the best documented
part of WebObjects. Still, its not very difficult to figure out... once
you understand a bit of key-value coding.
>
> I also searched the Web for examples that I might copy, but didn't
> find any usable source code for what I thought were common and quite
> basic needs.
>
> Another opportunity lost to use WO!
>
>
> Also, I quickly got the hang of EO Modeler, I almost didn't need the
> tutorial-style manual, but the lack of a complete reference and
> minimal online help left lingering questions about important details
> that are still lingering.
>
> I upgraded to WO 5.2 but apart from documentation of new features,
> there didn't seem to be any additional information filling the gaps
> that had become show stoppers previously.
I am not sure. Documentation, examples and tutorials have improved
tremendously in 5.2 and surely adress most of your problems.
In a way, its a goog thing that you postponed your involment into WO.
Its much easier to start with WO now than two years ago... On the other
hand, you would be a WO expert now if you had started two years ago...
>
>
> It's been about two years since my last attempt and with a little bit
> of encouragement, I might try again soon.
>
> I see that a few books have since been published on WO 5.x.
>
> - Are they much help in overcoming Apple's inattention to providing
> crucial instructions and know-how?
>
> - Which, if any of them, answer the questions I mentioned above?
The wrox book (Professionnal WebObjects 5 with java) does answer your
questions.
>
> - I found WOCode.com which has some downloads that sound interesting,
> though the berefity or absence of descriptions will make it tedious
> to sift through those holdings.
>
> - Are there any shareware sites that sell WO source for major
> components and common web applications, such as guest books, FACs,
> user surveys, membership signup, etc. like one can buy for a few
> bucks written in PHP or Perl?
>
>
> At 9:33 AM -0800 2/27/04, Marcelo Ruiz Camauer wrote:
>> And no matter how many books you
>> read on any technology, nothing beats a good tutor or class to get
>> started in it.
>
> _ Where can I find that?
> - Has Apple discontinued WebObjects training courses?
> There used to be some very expensive ones in Cupertino, any once in a
> blue moon and very expensive, particularly considering the long trip.
>
> I would greatly appreciate any hints and pointers.
Next time you try WebObjects, ask the community before giving up. We
can't afford loosing potential members!
>
> Wolf
>
Good luck.
JPM.
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