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Re: newbie WO/EOF questions
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Re: newbie WO/EOF questions


  • Subject: Re: newbie WO/EOF questions
  • From: "Jerry W. Walker" <email@hidden>
  • Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 17:14:37 -0400

Hi, Boris,

My first suggestion would be to hook up with a good WebObjects consulting firm and hire ONE of their consultants for a one month contract. Contract to work directly with that consultant in an XP process to plan the stories for the project and do the first month's work together in pair programming with you as the second member of the pair.

The first job you do together is to lay out the EOModel for the application in such a way that it satisfies the requirements for all of the rest of the stories for the release. Then undertake the other stories, giving priority to stories that exercise the model classes as much as possible. Within a month you should have a release of your system up and running and will have exercised the EOModel considerably. The system will probably not be complete, but if you pick stories that take at least one or two transactions all the way through the system, you will find it much easier to build on that to complete the system when the month is over.

To lower your costs, you might try to find a firm that would take you on 2 - 3 days per week, rather than full time, and allow their consultant to dedicate those 2 or 3 days to pair programming with you. The other days in the week you can use to review what was done during your pairing and study the classes and methods that you used during the consulting days.

If you were in the United States, figure that the consulting firm would charge you somewhere between $50 and $150 per hour for your paired programmer and that you'll be pairing for about 6 hours per day. If we round the numbers to 2 days per week, 4 weeks per month and $50 per hour for your pair, you will be paying around $4000 for this option. To get a higher top number as a cap, you might figure on $1000 per day (some firms won't charge by the hour for such a job), 3 days per week and 13 days for the month, which would cost about $13,000. So, if you're able to arrange it, you will be paying around $4,000 - $13,000 for this exercise in contract fees.

Whether you travel to the location of the firm or contract their programmer to work at your site, you will end up with someone's travel, lodging and entertainment charges. Don't forget to figure those in. Also consider that if you've contracted their consultant to come to your site, you will probably have to pay for the days they are not pairing with you, so you would be better off, in that case, using them full time.

If you go after a firm with a consultant who contributes to this list and whose contributions you've read to personally assure you that they are serious about doing WO projects right, then you'll probably avoid the biggest danger in this approach, which is that you will get a programmer who either won't help you understand WO, or who doesn't quite understand it him/her-self, but will muddle through to some working system.

And what do you get out of it? If you choose a firm that can furnish you an excellent WebObjects programmer, you will almost assure success with your project and will guarantee that the final result represents good WebObjects architecture on which you will be able to build easily, rather than a collection of beginner's mistakes that you will spend substantial amounts of time correcting later.

You will end up saving yourself enormous amounts of grief in the process because you will be forced to think like a WO programmer from the outset (and shown rather than be told how to do so) and will be working WITH the WO frameworks rather than fighting them because of your wish/need to understand the problem as another exercise in SQL programming.

Another cheaper but much longer term approach would be to take on three or four smaller and less critical projects by yourself and complete them using WO while peppering this list with questions about why/how WO works the way it does and whether you're following "best practices". Once these are all successfully implemented, take on this larger project. Overall, you can probably learn as much this way, but it will take a good deal longer. You might also end up missing some tricks that good WO programmers learn over time.

Our company would be interested in helping you with this, as, I'm sure, would many other companies whose employees are represented on this list. Put out the call and I'm sure you will have more responses than you need.

In any case, best of luck on your journey into WO programming.

Best regards,
Jerry

On Oct 2, 2005, at 2:58 PM, Boris Herman wrote:

Hello list,

I've been programming database applications for quite a while now. First with flat files and manual indexes in the 80's, then with local databases with concurrent lockings over to RDBMS and SQL. I've been using several RAD tools in several programming languages so the choices are plenty.

A client of ours wants to port (i.e. write anew) their business system which now runs as a win/mac client connected to a SQL server. They want to have it as an intranet application that runs in a browser window. Since I've been writing my own SQL statements for well over a decade the choice would be something like PHP but I've been looking at WebObjects as it is more advanced, needs less maintanence and vital components (such as SQL server) to a system can be changed without major changes in program. I really like the "upside-down" mechanism (frameworks) and the fact that most things that have to be done manually in PHP are done completely automatic. I know that WO is application server and PHP is just a scripting language but I'm talking solutions here, not technologies. Also a big plus is that the client already has 10.4 server up and running (which includes deployment license for WO) and I'm doing most of the work on my Macs anyway.

The trouble I'm facing (and I'm probably not the only one) is that the EOF needs a totally different way of thinking which is incompatible to my previous experience. I'm worried that during the development I will subconciously revert to old style programming and not the "WebObjects way". The moto I've read "if you are writing code, you are doing something wrong" haunts me and reminds me over and over that I really need to learn something new really well.

I've purchased and digested several books on the topic, including two that I've seen most recommended: Webobjects for Mac OS X by Joshua Marker (which doesn't go deep enough for my taste) and Practical WebObjects (which will most certainly become a priceless resource AFTER I've become a full grown WebObjects developer). I've also gone thru most of the tutorials and walktroughs available on the net.

But I still don't know my ways around EOF, in particular to relationships, be it to-one or to-many. I've grown so accustomed to writing SQL queries (thinking SQL) and making relationships (or iterating thru) with SELECTs I'm having a hard time grasping the new concept. Until now I SELECTed any relationships either inner or outer joins and used the foreign columns as they were columns in the source table (hence the join). Now in WebObjects, I have whole records (in to-one) and NSArrays of whole records (in to-many) as the result of a relationship. Things get even more hairy when I have relationships several levels deep and mixed to-one and to-many.

Where would a database app developer like me get proper guidance to start seriously on WebObjects on a semi-large project? The client database has about 20 tables, the main ones have over 2 mio records, each full of metadata of different types and 5 foreign keys. There is also a text field, which is occasionally searched via fulltext index and relevance scoring.

Thanks for any input and suggestions,
Boris Herman
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References: 
 >newbie WO/EOF questions (From: Boris Herman <email@hidden>)

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