• Open Menu Close Menu
  • Apple
  • Shopping Bag
  • Apple
  • Mac
  • iPad
  • iPhone
  • Watch
  • TV
  • Music
  • Support
  • Search apple.com
  • Shopping Bag

Lists

Open Menu Close Menu
  • Terms and Conditions
  • Lists hosted on this site
  • Email the Postmaster
  • Tips for posting to public mailing lists
Re: Problem of Building project converted from Objective C
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: Problem of Building project converted from Objective C


  • Subject: Re: Problem of Building project converted from Objective C
  • From: Ian Joyner <email@hidden>
  • Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 10:23:30 +1000


On 06/04/2006, at 11:17 PM, Jerry W. Walker wrote:

Hi, Chuck & Ian,

On Apr 5, 2006, at 8:33 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:

No, Jerry. Windows is not UNIX. It's really, really not UNIX. Trust me on this.

Now that sounds like a great feature of Windows, except not implies < or > (get your boolean parsers on that one) and alas Windows is ....

Crap. I think that is the technical word for it.

I'm still trying to parse those last three sentences, but it feels like Ian rode in to my defense and Chuck admitted to the reasons for my parochialism. So, thanks, guys!

At least it's a friendly beat up - ouch watch it!

  * setting up a link in /bin to its current location.


What? No C:?

Physical device mapping... how 1960s. No wait the B5000 was out in 1964, how 1950s! (The B5000 had a virtual memory P- (or presence) bit in segment descriptors, like WO faults! And its OS was not written in C.)


The history... The history... (thinking of Apocalypse Now).

Oooh. Ian, you're bringing back fond memories. I only wish I'd spent more time with the B5000 series and less time with the Burroughs' sales staff. :-)

Arrrrrrgh, now that's twisting the knife. The Burroughs' Sales Prevention Force was what it was known as. The story was that they would actually vet customers to see if they could provide a suitable environment to put the machine in. Another story about Edsger Dijkstra was that when he was in the plant at Pasadena saw how fast the B5000 could compile ALGOL (in seconds) that he wanted three for his university in Eindhoven. Then CEO Ray McDonald put a stop to that because he did not want to set up a support centre in Europe.


There's a nice article ;-) on the B5000 on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B5000

and for a great first-hand paper on the development of the B5000:

http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/B5000-AlgolRWaychoff.html

mostly about Bob Barton, who was one of Alan Kay's influential professors, and a nice aside about Don Knuth.

Back then, I was trying as hard to avoid the S360 as I am trying to avoid Windows today.

Well, the 360 did to the B5000 what Windows did to the Mac – a really inferior product, but marketing people seem to have to prove their worth on inferior products. The 360 made Dijkstra depressed it was so bad. No virtual memory, you had to configure fixed partitions for applications and do a Sysgen, where the B5000 MCP automatically configured itself to the environment (plug and play, so no sysgens). The 360s OS was still done in assembler, vs B5000 where there was no assembler (and no buffer overruns like you get in assember- and C- based OSs, so no modern viruses due to that problem). The stories about how virtual memory was in the B5000 ten years before IBM invented it is insightful into the differences of the two companies, as it is in the difference between the Barton -> Kay -> Jobs -> Apple and IBM -> Gates -> Windows lines. Fortunately, because of Jobs, Apple seems not to make the same mistakes as the Burroughs sales people.


The upside was that it got me Unix religion very early on (1977). The down side was constantly being aware of how really hard it is spending one's professional life in an industry dominated by clueless monopolists.

It's a bit of a white-knuckle ride ;-)

ROFL

Heh, now he laughs! Now that we've weaned him from that Windows blankey he used to clutch! :-)


Regards,
Jerry

_______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: This email sent to email@hidden
  • Follow-Ups:
    • Re: Problem of Building project converted from Objective C
      • From: "Jerry W. Walker" <email@hidden>
    • Re: Problem of Building project converted from Objective C
      • From: Chuck Hill <email@hidden>
References: 
 >Re: Problem of Building project converted from Objective C (From: john XUE <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Problem of Building project converted from Objective C (From: "Jerry W. Walker" <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Problem of Building project converted from Objective C (From: Chuck Hill <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Problem of Building project converted from Objective C (From: Ian Joyner <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Problem of Building project converted from Objective C (From: Chuck Hill <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Problem of Building project converted from Objective C (From: "Jerry W. Walker" <email@hidden>)

  • Prev by Date: Re: axis call now gives java.net.SocketTimeoutException
  • Next by Date: FOP and WebObjects yet again.
  • Previous by thread: Re: Problem of Building project converted from Objective C
  • Next by thread: Re: Problem of Building project converted from Objective C
  • Index(es):
    • Date
    • Thread