Re: Time out!
Re: Time out!
- Subject: Re: Time out!
- From: Michael Halliday <email@hidden>
- Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 12:15:26 -0400
I think you hit the nail right on the head with this one. I haven't
"posted" much on the list, but I have been subscribed for many
years. I guess you could call me a "lurker", but I do post from time
to time. Having not attended WWDC before (but always wanting too) I
am quite jealous of all which did attend!! I feel a very strong tie
to all the WO developers out there and it seems like this year, when
compared to past years, we have a much stronger community! I am
going to do my best to make it out to WWDC '07 :)
I can hardly wait to hear what the future of WO is going to be. I
must admit I developed an awful feeling in the pit of my stomach when
you mentioned that you didn't have a reason to use Eclipse before
now. I have solely used XCode as my development environment for WO
apps. I really can't see Apple dropping support for WO in XCode
3.0 ... I can't see why they would do that after just starting to
bundle it with the new XCode. Perhaps I am just completely reading
into things ... but I just had to post ... otherwise I would go stir
crazy!!
It is funny ... I installed Eclipse for the first time 2 weeks ago,
before all this WWDC crazy. Just to see what all the fuss was
about. I must admit the interface was completely different than
XCode (obviously) and just didn't have the "feel" I was used to. I
posted on Robert's blog last night ... I can see exactly where he is
coming from. However, I didn't think I would log on this morning to
find a slew of emails with harsh undertones. I agree with Janine
that we need to keep this list as a positive place. I am certainly
not putting down Eclipse/WOProject/WOLips, I am sure it is a very
powerful tool, which does it's job extremely well. I commend the
many hours of labour that have gone into the project! It is just a
whole different beast from XCode and if required to switch to it, I
am going to have to endure a whole new learning curve ... and I
suppose I will feel like I have lost a "good friend" (being XCode).
Well, I hope we get an announcement sooner as opposed to later on
this matter. The suspense is killing me.
Michael.
Michael Halliday
email@hidden
ADC Select Member
On 12-Aug-06, at 11:43 AM, email@hidden wrote:
*sigh* stupid hotel Internet; I forgot that it doesn't let me send
using my mac.com account, so I went away for a bit and found this
sitting here waiting for me to change outgoing mail servers. So
this was more relevant an hour ago, but I'm going to send it
anyway, with another thought added to the end.
I'm starting a new thread here because I don't want anyone to feel
I am addressing them specifically.
I would like to toss a few observations into the fray:
1. A new tool will almost always feel like a clunky piece of junk
when you are already intimately familiar with another one that does
the same job differently. Opinions to that effect will carry more
weight after you have been using it long enough to have gotten used
to it; if you still have issues with it then you can state them in
a much more informed manner.
2. Being a volunteer project is no excuse for sloppiness. The
Open Source project I am moving away from has been seriously
degraded because of this attitude. Everyone always wants to work
on new stuff, or at least the areas that interest them, but if
everyone neglects the housekeeping because it's boring and someone
else should volunteer to do that, eventually the whole thing suffers.
3. For some reason, it has always been the case that people will
say things to someone online that they would never say, at least
not nearly that bluntly, in a face-to-face meeting. IMHO it is
always a good idea to imagine yourself giving your "feedback" in
person before posting, and generally trying to err on the side of
being kind.
I have been online for a long time, since the Usenet days in the
80s, so I can say with some authority that this list has been,
overall, a very positive place to be compared to many other
technical lists out there. It would be a shame if the as-yet
unannounced developments ended up destroying that instead of giving
us all a common goal to work towards.
janine
Added later:
After going away and thinking about this some more, I wanted to add
the following:
I actually volunteered to do this tutorial on Sunday night, before
WWDC had even officially started. I did that because I was sitting
there listening to Chuck (who I had met before) and Mike (who I had
just met) talk about Entity Modeler and it occurred to me that I
will never get the kind of support from Apple that I can get from
those two guys and the rest of the community. That is not a
criticism of Apple (not that they couldn't improve in this area);
I'm not and probably never will be an Enterprise level customer,
and not even the best-run companies can afford to give personal
service to each small customer the way a group of dedicated
volunteers can. And these guys are well above the norm.
I will confess that I've tried Eclipse a few times before and have
never been particularly fond of it. I found the UI baffling and
definitely not Mac-like. I always ended up going back to Xcode as
the "Devil I know and have documentation for". So it's not like I
have a particularly strong desire to use Eclupse, and at that point
in the week I had no reason to either (that's called a "hint" :).
But I decided to do it anyway.
So I would offer this thought as an incentive for those whose first
impression of Eclipse is "ick" - it's understandable, but the
things it can do are very,very useful and there are good reasons
for using it, the above being only one of many.
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