Re: WOProject/WOLips first impressions from an Xcode user
Re: WOProject/WOLips first impressions from an Xcode user
- Subject: Re: WOProject/WOLips first impressions from an Xcode user
- From: Mike Schrag <email@hidden>
- Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 15:28:15 -0400
I had a MUCH larger response to Robert's blog post carefully crafted
this morning before I got on the plane, but decided not to send it
and I spent several hours thinking about it before I ended up with
the response you saw, where I explicitly tried to NOT be defensive/
insulting/whatever.
So let me expand on my original response. I appreciate constructive
criticism. If you've ever been on the WOLips list, we have a large
number of discussions/debates -- some more heated than others -- but
we all work really hard to try to produce a piece of software that we
collectively find to be useful, and I know I have personally changed
some of the implementations/UI's/etc I've been working on based on
feedback from people. Robert's completely entitled to all his
opinions, and I even agree with him on several of his points (believe
me, I know what sucks, too). But take, for instance, the comments
about WO Component editing -- was that necessary? We don't have a
graphical editor. We don't have a graphical editor for several REAL
reasons. This is not to say there aren't solutions for some of these
issues, but I have personally spent a LOT of time thinking about this
problem. WO Builder has big problems with anything but the simplest
of pages as soon as things start getting dynamic. If I'm going to
commit my time to working on a replacement (not saying I AM, but if I
DID), I don't want to just remake WO Builder, because I fundamentally
disagree with its workflow as a viable tool for component
development. In the meantime, I wrote WOD Editor. After writing it
and using it, I have since found that I am actually far MORE
productive using code completion and validation. Admittedly this
approach has a failing, and that is that while it is powerful for the
advanced developer, it really doesn't provide a lot of gentle
introduction for the beginning developer. I recognize this, but
that's not what WOD Editor was INTENDED to do. WOLips has thus far
mostly been built for the workflows of its authors, and the authors
tend to be on the more advanced side of things.
At WWDC several people spoke with me about possibilities for
providing alternatives to WO Builder, and we talked about getting a
dialog going on the WOLips list to start tossing around ideas (which
is an attitude that fits nicely in the way we do things). So yeah,
maybe I should just have a thicker skin and not be bothered by it --
this is why I deleted my first email, but it's specifically BECAUSE I
have a lot of pride in the work that I do that it bothers me. Rather
than post on the WOLips list or even the webobjects-dev list and
maybe ask "are there plans for a WO Builder?" or "I don't see a WO
Builder equivalent -- why is that?", there's a kind of nasty comment
about development being archaic with Component editing. What good
does this do anyone?
This leads me to my response. It's very pragmatic. If you don't
like something in WOLips, you can participate in three different
ways. Either join us and contribute ideas for making things better,
or better yet check out the source and contribute code back, or you
can just not use WOLips (ok, well the fourth option is to use it but
be upset and silent the whole time :) ).
ms
On Aug 12, 2006, at 8:31 AM, Rob Caljouw wrote:
Welcome to the new world of WebObjects,
yes you too can try out this fabulous new technology, offer an
opinion and be insulted.
Anjo and Mike, what you don't know is the that organization that
Robert works for is (sorry make that was) a big supporter of and
contributor to a number of open source initiatives. Robert himself
has contributed a great deal to the Apple/WebObjects community of
his own volition so in the future I would advise you to be careful
about your assumptions.
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