Re: Hibernate
Re: Hibernate
- Subject: Re: Hibernate
- From: Dov Rosenberg <email@hidden>
- Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 16:25:32 -0400
- Thread-topic: Hibernate
When I mentioned incorporating Project Wonder - I really meant some of the
ideas embodied in the frameworks that the team has brought forward. Things
like additional qualifiers, multiple db connections, synchronization, better
lock management, etc. It would be even better if Apple would donate some
time from a decent tech writer to help out on some WO based open source
projects. Probably wouldn't take them very long to make a big impact.
As I mentioned before - Hibernate is a lot lower level and not nearly as
elegant as EOF in terms of how it does things. But it does provide a lower
level of control that EOF does not provide without abandoning the benefits
of EOF.
Any tool without an active development team (either paid or open source) is
going to stagnate and eventually wither. It is not enough to throw a little
fertilizer on it once a year.
Dov Rosenberg
On 6/18/07 4:09 PM, "Chuck Hill" <email@hidden> wrote:
>
> On Jun 15, 2007, at 2:06 PM, Dov Rosenberg wrote:
>
>> I think the WO community is a very strong one. I have been using WO
>> since 1996. While Hibernate has a big learning curve to it it has
>> also made a lot of forward progress in comparison to EOF.
>
> That is probably as it started out with very little done and EOF has
> been pretty much done for a long time.
>
>
>> There are still a lot of things I like about EOF including having a
>> centralized place to look for model information versus storing it
>> in annotations inside the Java files, and the handling of
>> relationships, and key value coding to name a few. But not having
>> native support for databases like DB2, lack of easy to use
>> connection pooling (there are some things that can be done), a
>> richer set of Qualifiers, etc. Project Wonder should be
>> incorporated into EOF/WO ASAP by Apple.
>
> You want to make Open Source code into Closed Source code? That is
> nuts. With Wonder we can see how it works, fix it if it is broken,
> and extend it. I would like _less_ in the core frameworks.
> Particularly, I would like less bugs. And work is well underway in
> that area.
>
>
>> The choice to move away from WO/EOF is a hard one it is still one
>> of the most well designed frameworks on the market (we have looked
>> at a lot of them over the past few months) - it is hard to believe
>> that it is 12 years old already. The core group of the WO community
>> including Chuck, Mike, and the gang have been a huge help. I think
>> in some respects having a smaller group of users actually makes the
>> group more cohesive and less fragmented. It has been my experience
>> that the average WO/EOF developer is much more technically
>> competent that other groups of developers. Maybe it is my biased
>> opinion.
>
> I agree and suspect there is some correlation between being more
> technically competent and choosing to use WO. But I am biased.
>
>
>> The last major upgrade to EOF was the daylight savings time update.
>> Before that was probably the move to 5.0 from 4.x. I still love WO.
>> I just wish Apple would give it more respect and realize that the
>> rest of the world would benefit from it.
>
> Usually I would say, "Don't hold your breath.". But this year that
> might be a safe thing to do. ;-)
>
> Chuck
>
>
>> On 6/15/07 4:33 PM, "Jeremy Rosenberg" <email@hidden>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On 15-Jun-07, at 12:09 PM, email@hidden
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Is EOF going to support JPA (Java Persistence Architecture)
>>>> anytime soon?
>>>> 2. Is direct support for connection pooling going to be implemented?
>>>> 3. Any word on open source status?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We have been seriously investigating Hibernate. Hibernate has
>>>> mountains of
>>>> documentation (it seems to be very complex in comparison to EOF)
>>>> and a
>>>> pretty vibrant developer community. We are also considering JSF as a
>>>> replacement for the WebObjects components. The move would not be
>>>> easy but in
>>>> light of the lack of news I don't think we have a lot of choice
>>>> from a
>>>> business perspective.
>>>>
>>>> Any news is good news.
>>>>
>>>> Dov Rosenberg
>>>
>>>
>>> One of my colleagues has been using Hibernate because he's part of
>>> an open source project that requires him to find a solution
>>> outside of WebObjects. He bitches about missing EOF almost daily
>>> (and that's after a year of working with it). If there is no
>>> technological reason for you to leave WebObjects then it would be
>>> a mistake to do so. If your concern is that you feel Hibernate or
>>> JSF has a more vibrant community then WebObjects then I think your
>>> concern is unfounded. I'd be surprised if any community based
>>> initiative has a more committed core than WebObjects and that
>>> includes the dozens of developers within Apple projects, like
>>> iTunes and the Apple Store (I got that from Wikipedia, not from
>>> any specific knowledge gained at WWDC under NDA).
>>>
>>> There's lots of news and it's all good news for anyone who hopes
>>> to continue working in WebObjects.
>>>
>>> A wise man once said that there is nothing in the NDA against
>>> saying that you are happy, and I am very happy. :)
>>>
>>> Jeremy
>>>
>>>>
>>> ====================================================================
>>>
>>> Jeremy Rosenberg
>>> Systems Consultant
>>> Academic Computing Services
>>> Simon Fraser University
>>> Burnaby, BC, Canada V5A 1S6
>>>
>>> Email: email@hidden <mailto:email@hidden>
>>>
>>> "AMAINT, provisioning good times since 1994!"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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