Re: WebObjects Paper
Re: WebObjects Paper
- Subject: Re: WebObjects Paper
- From: Daniel Beatty <email@hidden>
- Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 12:51:52 -0500
Greetings Jay,
I plan on coming to WWDC, and the WO conference right before. One
thing I have yet to find are conference proceedings from either WWDC
or WOWODC. I have received word that Google Summer of Code and the
Google Workshop are asking for papers, which may be an outlet for
publication. The MIR conference (http://press.liacs.nl/mir2008/) is
asking for papers, and have a deadline for submission of April 20th.
In addition the paper in question, I am currently working on a second
paper exploiting WO, GWT, and WebKit. As there have been questions
about this on the WO lists so far. Of course another related example
exists, namely iTunes. One thing about iTunes is that Apple produces
their own AJAX for their own product, rather than use GWT. The
second paper addresses this issue for my particular example, namely
Sky Raider's inclusion of a Desktop app with legacy code (HEARSAC and
SDSS). WO and GWT supply the web and database interface, WebKit
provides the legacy code interface, and integrated together they
supply a beautiful astrophysics tools that obeys the container design
pattern.
Thank you,
Dan
On Apr 18, 2008, at 11:47 AM, Jay Al Hashal wrote:
Are you going to be at WWDC? WO and GoogleWebToolkit might be
addressed then. Not sure yet. Let me know when you are ready for
your paper to be reviewed and I would gladly take a look.
-jay
Greetings Jay,
That would be most helpful. Obviously, the paper does have an
imbetween Xcode and Eclipse slant to it as a result of starting
with XCode. Yet it does address both as an academic paper that
uses WO as its implementation. It probably should include an
appendix to provide a simple tutorial as to how IQS was built, but
I plan on leaving that to the second paper, which brings to
unsuspecting technologies together: WebObjects and Google Web
Toolkit (for the Web 2.0/ custom and quick AJAX implementation).
None the less, the paper does need some readers. I am hoping to
start publishing a lot of papers, and this is my first conference
paper that can and will show up in conference proceedings.
Another hope is for Apple and WebObjects to eventually support or
sponsor conferences with proceedings that count as publications.
Later,
Dan
On Apr 16, 2008, at 1:49 PM, Jay Al Hashal wrote:
Congratulations. I was out of the country when you first sent your
request for review, if you still need a reader, I am happy to take
a look.
Good luck, Jay Al Hashal
Greetings Chuck and WO developers,
I am now targeting the MIR conference with my paper. It is a
good match, and has good exposure potential for WO in the
academic arena.
Later,
Dan Beatty
From: Daniel Beatty <email@hidden>
Date: April 11, 2008 10:21:56 AM PDT
To: Chuck Hill <email@hidden>
Cc: Daniel Beatty <email@hidden>, email@hidden
Subject: Re: Leaving WebObjects
Greetings Chuck,
Thank you for responding. The answer to the first question is
dependent on the speed as to which I can find a journal or
conference to submit the paper to. The idea is to ensure that
such ideas implemented with WO are catch the eyes of many both in
and out of the WO community. Since this paper addresses a
serious concern in the meta-data, CMS, and image cataloging
communities it seems only appropriate that the portions on
WebObjects read smooth and convey accurate information. To
that end, my advisor has asked me to engage in the hunt for
conferences where to present this paper, preferably ones that
have published conference proceedings.
As for the second question, the answer is both. While my
dissertation chair has provided excellent advise about phrasing
the document, a critical review should also refine the document
to satisfy criticism from the WO community itself and the
academic community. I believe this paper to be one step towards
bridging the two communities and supplying the WO community with
one of the things it needs most, good documentation and
publication.
Later,
Dan
On Apr 9, 2008, at 10:05 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:
When do you need it reviewed by? Are you looking for any
specific format or content in the review?
Chuck Hill
On Apr 8, 2008, at 8:33 PM, Daniel Beatty wrote:
Greetings Hugi and the rest of the WO community,
I agree Mike and Pierre are doing a good job. I hope that the
WO can do me a favor in WO's own interest. I am working on
paper intended for journal publication, https://venus.cs.ttu.edu/svn/iqsIntroPaper/introPaper/IQSReviseViaWO.pdf
. The favor I would like as is, would members of the WO
community like to help peer review this paper and respond with
criticism? It is a little hard to have buzz to anyone about
WO without academia considering its merit and showing the
computer science in it.
Thank you,
Dan Beatty
Ph.D. Student,
Computer Science Department
Texas Tech University
On Tuesday, April 08, 2008, at 04:30PM, "Hugi Þórðarson" <email@hidden
> wrote:
Of course we, the nerds, know that WO is doing better than
ever. Hell,
I've never been happier or more productive with WO and I've
been a
full time WO programmer since 1998. The stuff that's coming
from Mike
in WOLips (and Wonder) is nothing short of amazing.
And I'm lucky - I control what software I use, and I choose
WO. I can,
because I don't have to deal with managers that "know better".
But I
completely understand why managers are reluctant to choose WO.
Try
Googling "WebObjects". The first site that comes up is Apple's
site
(surprise!) - and the first and only article there celebrated
it's
fourth birthday last month.
I mean, if someone comes to you and says "check out product X,
it's
really cool!" - you go to the website of the company that
makes X, and
see that nothing's happened since 2004.... Catch my drift?
I'm not trying to be negative. I don't have to. Thanks to Mike
and
Wonder, life is good with WO, and Pierre and his team are
doing an
excellent job in many regards. But perhaps it's time for Apple
to
spend like 1 man month on the WO web site (like, making it not
look
dead) or just plain redirect to the community efforts, where
actual
stuff is happening.
- hugi
On 8.4.2008, at 20:40, Lachlan Deck wrote:
Hi there,
On 09/04/2008, at 4:50 AM, Robert B. Hanviriyapunt wrote:
For some time now, my company has been set on leaving
WebObjects.
We have been running WebObjects 5.2 on Windows servers.
For some time WO5.3.3 has been out... and free. And WO5.4.1
is also
out.
We haven't moved 100% yet, but my next project will be using
JavaServer Faces. And another fairly new project will be using
OpenLaszlo with our existing J2E back-end.
Company's reasons for leaving:
1. WebObjects is proprietary
So is Windows. Why aren't they running BSD or Linux? ;-)
2. New versions of WebObjects is not supported on Windows
What do they understand by support? The frameworks can be
used on
*any* platform.
3. Perceived lack of knowledgeable WebObjects programmers
(I'm in
the Chicago suburbs -- Northbrook, IL, to be precise)
Perhaps they've not been paying attention to the mailings
lists.
(specifically: webobjects-dev, wonder-disc, woproject-dev).
We do NOT use:
1. Xcode/WebObjects tools [Xcode or WOBuilder or EOModeler]
(except
for me on a MacBook Pro -- only because I requested it)
Hardly anyone uses Xcode, WOBuilder, EOModeler anymore --
especially
if you're on Leopard. They use Eclipse/WOLips which is much
better
and improving in leaps and bounds all the time.
http://wiki.objectstyle.org/confluence/display/WOL/Home
- perhaps you/they've not had a look through the wiki...
tutorials etc
2. EOF
If you're not using EOF - what part of WebObjects were you
using?
3. WONDER
That's a huge loss - especially given that they're big on non-
proprietary frameworks.
4. Servlet container (which I do not prefer anyway)
I personally enjoy WebObjects development and wish that
WebObjects
would be more palatable to companies such as mine.
I do understand where companies (or more specifically,
management)
are coming from when they get nervous about a certain
technology
such as WebObjects. For years Apple was quite silent about
WebObjects. e.g., Bug reports went unnoticed, updates didn't
seem to
be a priority. But that has turned around quite dramatically
in the
last couple of years... ironically beginning with the
announcement
of the tools deprecation.
The community is thriving and Apple (i.e., the employees) are
also
contributing in significant ways and being proactive about bug
reports and taking part in the mailing lists.
Please excuse the ranting, but I want someone at Apple to
know that
as great as WebObjects technology is [I personally think it
is the
BEST I've seen anywhere], it is losing ground because if
it's lack
in thet top 3 items mentioned. I wish so bad that Apple
would do
something about it.
Personally I think Apple has done something about it - and
for the
better. But as I've explained, you're only left with one
argument:
proprietary. You can't argue with management, unfortunately,
when
their on the buzz word bandwagon of open-source despite the
maturity
of a particular framework in comparison to other stuff...
Certainly if it's completely closed and there's no
possibility of
customising stuff... but we've already mentioned WOnder (or
Houdah,
or similar frameworks)
I'm guessing people's response will be: Don't hold your
breath.
Perhaps you held it too long and didn't realise what's happened
these last few years ;-)
with regards,
--
Lachlan Deck
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--
Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their
overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve
specific problems.
http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects
Dan Beatty, M.S. CS (B.S. EECS)
Ph.D. Student
Texas Tech University
email@hidden
http://venus.cs.ttu.edu/~dabeatty
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Dan Beatty, M.S. CS (B.S. EECS)
Ph.D. Student
Texas Tech University
email@hidden
http://venus.cs.ttu.edu/~dabeatty
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