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Re: Snow Leopard compatibility and the future of webobjects
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Re: Snow Leopard compatibility and the future of webobjects


  • Subject: Re: Snow Leopard compatibility and the future of webobjects
  • From: David Avendasora <email@hidden>
  • Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 07:30:42 -0400

Hi yllan,

I haven't had my coffee yet today, so I'm feeling crabby...

On Jun 13, 2009, at 3:07 AM, Yung-Luen Lan wrote:

Hi,

*** WARNING: I  wasn't able to be at WWDC or WOWODC this year so I'm
not sure the following is correct. ***

It's not.

According to the website:
http://mac.topnewsdigest.com/uncategorized/conflicting-information-about-webobjects/

"Mac OS X 10.6 server no longer support WebObjects."

Oooh. topnewsdigest.com. That's where I go for all my Apple-related news.


I don't know where they got that. But wherever it's from it's likely from pre-release documentation and likely wildly inaccurate. Or maybe there's some grain of truth to it, but it isn't what you think. Who knows?

I'm not to talk about NDA-things here. Instead, I'm here to discuss
what the above statement mean to us.

Not much.

Since Apple itself is still using WebObjects for MobileMe, iTunes
store, AppleStore website, RADAR, devforums and many other system,
it's difficult to totally replace all the webobjects app to other
technology at once.

Or ever. WO not only runs their public-facing apps, but it is also the foundation of almost every other internal application at Apple. Somebody from Apple once said "every penny that Apple makes flows through WO at some point". This is not something that they are going to walk away from.


However, I speculate that Apple will put less and less effort on
WebObjects year by year.

Don't speculate about things you don't know anything about. You said yourself that you weren't at WOWODC or WWDC.


Although WO 5.5/5.6 is coming, I personally
do not expect any other good news from Apple. First deprecates
wo-tools,

I don't know how often this needs to be said, but the deprecation of the Apple-developed tools was very good news for WebObjects. The Cocoa- Java Bridge that these tools were based on was deprecated and wouldn't be available in Leopard. So Apple was faced with needing to re-write all the WO-specific dev tools from scratch. But they very wisely saw that the Eclipse-based toolset (WOLips) was already more powerful and less buggy and they chose to _support_ that instead. The tools changed, they didn't disappear.


Their decision to recommend, use and invest in WOLips has had a hugely positive impact on the ongoing development of the WO frameworks _and_ the Dev Tools. All internal WO development can now focus on improving the frameworks instead of being sidetracked by the tools. And improve they have. The new templating system in WO 5.4 is really amazing.

The strides that WOLips has made over the last year with Apple's backing is simply phenomenal.

then discontinue the support of WO in the next release of
their OS.

Wow. You take an article about "conflicting information" and turn it into fact that Apple is discontinuing WO support. That's an enormous leap there.


Apple's attitute is obvious

No it's not. It's as obtuse and inscrutable as any of Apple's intentions are and it's even easier to misinterpret, especially when you don't attend the events that specifically cover these things.


––I even talked to an Apple
employee at WWDC08 and he said, "You are using WebObjects? I thought
only europeans use that." Of course it's just kidding in a very
private conversation, but it more or less shows that not all Apple
employees are satisfying with WebObjects,

Yeah. One guy makes a snide remark and you take it to mean there's a fundamental problem with WO?


and I guess their percentage
isn't low.

Based on what? Where do you get that information? These are all idle speculations by someone that didn't even attend the events that could have provided some of the answers.


It seems that this year we have nothing metioned on the
WWDC IT session page. No lab either.

Maybe because there was so many excellent sessions available at WOWODC that there wasn't a need to have something at WWDC.


Even Apple's current wo apps were not good testimonials for WO.

Based on what? That's a big statement.

Some
developers think that Apple's web apps are infamous as
20-century-style and feel frustrated when using them.

Some developers think that Perl is the best technology for a web app.

(It's a long
story about how Apple Online Store screw its customer's names with
iPhone dev program)

Huh?

Well, it may not be the problem of the essence of
WO at all, but the lack of documentation/support is.

I'll agree that the lack of direct, non NDA information is a constant frustration. A clear roadmap would be great, but Apple just doesn't do that, for anything. Even things they _do_ announce sometimes don't materialize (ZFS,


Maybe why WebObjects is still in Apple is because (1) Apple has no
other web technology,

Maybe the iPhone is the only Apple phone because Apple has no other phone. Oh my God, the iPhone is doomed!


(2) Pierre try hard to defending and promoting
WO,

I've never heard Pierre do either. Doesn't need to defend it and while promoting would be nice, it's just not going to happen.


and (3) both. I predict the future of WebObjects will be totally
running from community.

I predict that cars will fly and it will rain (fluffy) bunnies and unicorns.


Dave _______________________________________________
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  • Follow-Ups:
    • Re: Snow Leopard compatibility and the future of webobjects
      • From: Janine Sisk <email@hidden>
    • Re: Snow Leopard compatibility and the future of webobjects
      • From: Yung-Luen Lan <email@hidden>
References: 
 >Snow Leopard compatibility and the future of webobjects (From: Yung-Luen Lan <email@hidden>)

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