Re: More thoughts to rile MS
Re: More thoughts to rile MS
- Subject: Re: More thoughts to rile MS
- From: Pascal Robert <email@hidden>
- Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 01:39:08 -0400
Le 2010-09-11 à 00:20, Paul D Yu a écrit :
> Ken
>
> There are many new small companies going to market with WO + Wonder, some even with D2W with Wonder. Personally, I've got one in production now and trying to build a second as we speak. In addition, I'm consulting on another. K12 has MANY WO apps in production serving their entire student population. Evergent is HUGE.
And Cocktail is even more huge. Perhaps the largest WO system outside Apple in active development.
> So lots of good things happening. But every year, we have to have this conversation.
>
> Paul
> On Sep 11, 2010, at 12:15 AM, Ken Foust wrote:
>
>> Some more thoughts even if they are total BS
>>
>> I wonder how many people still use D2W ?
>> I would say fold project wonder into WO
>> bring back WOB in HTML 5
>> Even if you make WOB a stand alone Apple Dev App leaving WO open-source
>> If D2W is outdated - dump it
>> Get on the tutorials - it is the way forward
>> You could even pick real apps to to a tutorial and all the gurus could join it.
>> This may be far fetched but just think - If all you guys got together and say did a tutorial based on a WO-ebay
>> you could even launch it and share in the profits.
>> get rid of the fragmentation
>> one click install and be ready to rock
>> How many "New" companies are moving to WO
>> How are you going to market
>>
>>
>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 6:01 PM, email@hidden wrote:
>>
>>> Send Webobjects-dev mailing list submissions to
>>> email@hidden
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/webobjects-dev
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>> email@hidden
>>>
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>> email@hidden
>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of Webobjects-dev digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> 1. Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools?
>>> (Pascal Robert)
>>> 2. Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools?
>>> (Chuck Hill)
>>> 3. Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools?
>>> (Pascal Robert)
>>> 4. Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools?
>>> (Jeremy Matthews)
>>> 5. Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools?
>>> (Andr? Mitra)
>>> 6. WOCommunity 2010 surveys (Pascal Robert)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 19:49:24 -0400
>>> From: Pascal Robert <email@hidden>
>>> Subject: Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools?
>>> To: Michael Gargano <email@hidden>
>>> Cc: Apple WO-Dev <email@hidden>
>>> Message-ID: <email@hidden>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>> Yes, the wiki do need a good cleanup. About the videos, that's one of my options for my book/big tutorial...
>>>
>>>> Looking at it as someone just starting to get very serious about WO.... The community needs videos that describe everything from the ground level up. Not just here's how to install WO and "Hello World" with every other video being fairly advanced. To much is assumed for beginners. Also, the wiki needs an enema. As I learn more I hope I can help clean it (a lot of the stuff in there is outdated). Maybe starting from scratch in a new wiki or blog would be best. Other than that the community has been extremely helpful overall!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 7:39 PM, Pascal Robert wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And we will try to help out the community even more. I have a couple of ideas about that...
>>>>>
>>>>>> In the meantime, while we wait for the apocalypse, whoever wants to keep making apps with Java and WebObjects is welcome to hang around.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ms
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:43 PM, Ken Foust wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From the outside looking in:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It appears to me as thought WO is on the end of life list. As good as it may be I don't suspect in can survive in the future.
>>>>>>> Apple has elected to leave web development to the open-source. I would suspect they only possible way Apple can compete in the
>>>>>>> Enterprise market is to make it proprietary and in ObjC. Short of that you have too many people working for free on Rails, Grails and all
>>>>>>> the open-source programs.
>>>>>>> There is no way to get enough new users to come aboard as WO now has poor documentation and terrible tutorials.
>>>>>>> Sorry if I offend anyone but it is what it is.
>>>>>>> For you gurus to understand it completely - leaves you in a world of your own, but selling the concept I believe is difficult and will even get more
>>>>>>> difficult.
>>>>>>> Hell I think Java is on the way out along with Sun and Oracle.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Apple has always had the proprietary followers and they could put off a brilliant app for web development should they choose. In addition their
>>>>>>> market share is now large enough to support the idea.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> my two cents
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 1:02 PM, André Mitra wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> except Mathematica :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2010-09-10, at 9:26 AM, Amiel Montecillo wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mike is scary somtimes .... ;) But I agree with him that there is no 1 tool that does everything.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> Amiel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 8:22 PM, Mike Schrag <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Here's my slightly less grumpy response :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Apple, like any smart company, makes technology decisions based on lots of variables -- what technology makes sense? what technology doesn't make sense? what is the expertise of our current staffing? what are the goals for the project? etc ... I love WO, but I'm also the first to admit that WO and EOF aren't the right fit for every problem. There are parts of WOF and EOF that drive me crazy, and there are parts that are amazing. I also don't think that being WO inherently makes you scalable any more than I think being a Rails app makes you inherently unscalable. It's just like the NoSQL vs Relational debate. Are relational databases dead? No. That's just silly. But do NoSQL databases have a place? Absolutely -- they bring value to a certain set of problems that relational doesn't address well. Likewise, Apple has public web properties that are static html, php, struts, jsf, jsp, sproutcore, webobjects, and I'm sure others and there are lots of different reasons in each
>>> of those cases why decisions were made one way or another. In any complex system, you're probably going to end up with a mix of technologies. As far as "details," you're just not going to get them because Apple doesn't roll that way.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ms
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 2:54 AM, Mertz Stéphan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The new 'the Sales and Trend reporting module' of iTunes Connect is develop with JSF instead of WebObjects.
>>>>>>>>>> Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Does someone know what is powering the new Ping social network ?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Stéphan _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> socket error: unable to connect to 127.0.0.1
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>>
>>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>
>>>
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>> URL: http://lists.apple.com/pipermail/webobjects-dev/attachments/20100910/54e65229/attachment.html
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 16:51:45 -0700
>>> From: Chuck Hill <email@hidden>
>>> Subject: Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools?
>>> To: Pascal Robert <email@hidden>
>>> Cc: Apple WO-Dev <email@hidden>
>>> Message-ID: <email@hidden>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>>
>>> Or we could just find someplace dark to hide and wait for it all to end. In the meantime, I have a lot of work to do...
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 4:39 PM, Pascal Robert wrote:
>>>
>>>> And we will try to help out the community even more. I have a couple of ideas about that...
>>>>
>>>>> In the meantime, while we wait for the apocalypse, whoever wants to keep making apps with Java and WebObjects is welcome to hang around.
>>>>>
>>>>> ms
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:43 PM, Ken Foust wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From the outside looking in:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It appears to me as thought WO is on the end of life list. As good as it may be I don't suspect in can survive in the future.
>>>>>> Apple has elected to leave web development to the open-source. I would suspect they only possible way Apple can compete in the
>>>>>> Enterprise market is to make it proprietary and in ObjC. Short of that you have too many people working for free on Rails, Grails and all
>>>>>> the open-source programs.
>>>>>> There is no way to get enough new users to come aboard as WO now has poor documentation and terrible tutorials.
>>>>>> Sorry if I offend anyone but it is what it is.
>>>>>> For you gurus to understand it completely - leaves you in a world of your own, but selling the concept I believe is difficult and will even get more
>>>>>> difficult.
>>>>>> Hell I think Java is on the way out along with Sun and Oracle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apple has always had the proprietary followers and they could put off a brilliant app for web development should they choose. In addition their
>>>>>> market share is now large enough to support the idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> my two cents
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 1:02 PM, André Mitra wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> except Mathematica :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2010-09-10, at 9:26 AM, Amiel Montecillo wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mike is scary somtimes .... ;) But I agree with him that there is no 1 tool that does everything.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Amiel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 8:22 PM, Mike Schrag <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Here's my slightly less grumpy response :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Apple, like any smart company, makes technology decisions based on lots of variables -- what technology makes sense? what technology doesn't make sense? what is the expertise of our current staffing? what are the goals for the project? etc ... I love WO, but I'm also the first to admit that WO and EOF aren't the right fit for every problem. There are parts of WOF and EOF that drive me crazy, and there are parts that are amazing. I also don't think that being WO inherently makes you scalable any more than I think being a Rails app makes you inherently unscalable. It's just like the NoSQL vs Relational debate. Are relational databases dead? No. That's just silly. But do NoSQL databases have a place? Absolutely -- they bring value to a certain set of problems that relational doesn't address well. Likewise, Apple has public web properties that are static html, php, struts, jsf, jsp, sproutcore, webobjects, and I'm sure others and there are lots of different reasons in each
>>> of those cases why decisions were made one way or another. In any complex system, you're probably going to end up with a mix of technologies. As far as "details," you're just not going to get them because Apple doesn't roll that way.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ms
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 2:54 AM, Mertz Stéphan wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The new 'the Sales and Trend reporting module' of iTunes Connect is develop with JSF instead of WebObjects.
>>>>>>>>> Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Does someone know what is powering the new Ping social network ?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Stéphan _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> socket error: unable to connect to 127.0.0.1
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>>
>>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>
>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>
>>> --
>>> Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development
>>>
>>> Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems.
>>> http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>>> Name: smime.p7s
>>> Type: application/pkcs7-signature
>>> Size: 3927 bytes
>>> Desc: not available
>>> Url : http://lists.apple.com/pipermail/webobjects-dev/attachments/20100910/83a08295/smime.bin
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 19:52:38 -0400
>>> From: Pascal Robert <email@hidden>
>>> Subject: Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools?
>>> To: Chuck Hill <email@hidden>
>>> Cc: Apple WO-Dev <email@hidden>
>>> Message-ID: <email@hidden>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 2010-09-10 à 19:51, Chuck Hill a écrit :
>>>
>>>> Or we could just find someplace dark to hide and wait for it all to end. In the meantime, I have a lot of work to do...
>>>
>>> We just have to wait two years :-)
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 4:39 PM, Pascal Robert wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And we will try to help out the community even more. I have a couple of ideas about that...
>>>>>
>>>>>> In the meantime, while we wait for the apocalypse, whoever wants to keep making apps with Java and WebObjects is welcome to hang around.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ms
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:43 PM, Ken Foust wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From the outside looking in:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It appears to me as thought WO is on the end of life list. As good as it may be I don't suspect in can survive in the future.
>>>>>>> Apple has elected to leave web development to the open-source. I would suspect they only possible way Apple can compete in the
>>>>>>> Enterprise market is to make it proprietary and in ObjC. Short of that you have too many people working for free on Rails, Grails and all
>>>>>>> the open-source programs.
>>>>>>> There is no way to get enough new users to come aboard as WO now has poor documentation and terrible tutorials.
>>>>>>> Sorry if I offend anyone but it is what it is.
>>>>>>> For you gurus to understand it completely - leaves you in a world of your own, but selling the concept I believe is difficult and will even get more
>>>>>>> difficult.
>>>>>>> Hell I think Java is on the way out along with Sun and Oracle.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Apple has always had the proprietary followers and they could put off a brilliant app for web development should they choose. In addition their
>>>>>>> market share is now large enough to support the idea.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> my two cents
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 1:02 PM, André Mitra wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> except Mathematica :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2010-09-10, at 9:26 AM, Amiel Montecillo wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mike is scary somtimes .... ;) But I agree with him that there is no 1 tool that does everything.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> Amiel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 8:22 PM, Mike Schrag <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Here's my slightly less grumpy response :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Apple, like any smart company, makes technology decisions based on lots of variables -- what technology makes sense? what technology doesn't make sense? what is the expertise of our current staffing? what are the goals for the project? etc ... I love WO, but I'm also the first to admit that WO and EOF aren't the right fit for every problem. There are parts of WOF and EOF that drive me crazy, and there are parts that are amazing. I also don't think that being WO inherently makes you scalable any more than I think being a Rails app makes you inherently unscalable. It's just like the NoSQL vs Relational debate. Are relational databases dead? No. That's just silly. But do NoSQL databases have a place? Absolutely -- they bring value to a certain set of problems that relational doesn't address well. Likewise, Apple has public web properties that are static html, php, struts, jsf, jsp, sproutcore, webobjects, and I'm sure others and there are lots of different reasons in each
>>> of those cases why decisions were made one way or another. In any complex system, you're probably going to end up with a mix of technologies. As far as "details," you're just not going to get them because Apple doesn't roll that way.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ms
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 2:54 AM, Mertz Stéphan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The new 'the Sales and Trend reporting module' of iTunes Connect is develop with JSF instead of WebObjects.
>>>>>>>>>> Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Does someone know what is powering the new Ping social network ?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Stéphan _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> socket error: unable to connect to 127.0.0.1
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>>
>>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development
>>>>
>>>> Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems.
>>>> http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 19:56:45 -0400
>>> From: Jeremy Matthews <email@hidden>
>>> Subject: Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools?
>>> To: email@hidden
>>> Message-ID: <email@hidden>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>>
>>> Since I'm in and out of the WO world, I can say that it was hardest for me to get updated documentation, sample code, examples, podcasts, etc.
>>>
>>> News and information appears sporadic and sparse...and not just on WO, but with the rest of the stuff WO devs use (Wonder, Eclipse config, etc).
>>>
>>> The folks on this list are fantastic, but I don't view them as my personal resource for every single WO question out there, and the ones I had (or have) tend to be the same ones that those before me had as well. The community is small...GREAT, but small. So when I have a tough question (which happens), it seems like the same few folks are answering. It makes me leery for the future - if Chuck and Kieran get hit by a bus, I would be going to the nearest bar and running a very large tab!
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> jeremy
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 5
>>> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 20:00:22 -0400
>>> From: Andr? Mitra <email@hidden>
>>> Subject: Re: Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools?
>>> To: Chuck Hill <email@hidden>
>>> Cc: Apple WO-Dev <email@hidden>
>>> Message-ID: <email@hidden>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>>
>>> Yes, we need another book from you!
>>>
>>> On 2010-09-10, at 7:51 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:
>>>
>>>> Or we could just find someplace dark to hide and wait for it all to end. In the meantime, I have a lot of work to do...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 4:39 PM, Pascal Robert wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And we will try to help out the community even more. I have a couple of ideas about that...
>>>>>
>>>>>> In the meantime, while we wait for the apocalypse, whoever wants to keep making apps with Java and WebObjects is welcome to hang around.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ms
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:43 PM, Ken Foust wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From the outside looking in:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It appears to me as thought WO is on the end of life list. As good as it may be I don't suspect in can survive in the future.
>>>>>>> Apple has elected to leave web development to the open-source. I would suspect they only possible way Apple can compete in the
>>>>>>> Enterprise market is to make it proprietary and in ObjC. Short of that you have too many people working for free on Rails, Grails and all
>>>>>>> the open-source programs.
>>>>>>> There is no way to get enough new users to come aboard as WO now has poor documentation and terrible tutorials.
>>>>>>> Sorry if I offend anyone but it is what it is.
>>>>>>> For you gurus to understand it completely - leaves you in a world of your own, but selling the concept I believe is difficult and will even get more
>>>>>>> difficult.
>>>>>>> Hell I think Java is on the way out along with Sun and Oracle.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Apple has always had the proprietary followers and they could put off a brilliant app for web development should they choose. In addition their
>>>>>>> market share is now large enough to support the idea.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> my two cents
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 1:02 PM, André Mitra wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> except Mathematica :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2010-09-10, at 9:26 AM, Amiel Montecillo wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mike is scary somtimes .... ;) But I agree with him that there is no 1 tool that does everything.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> Amiel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 8:22 PM, Mike Schrag <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Here's my slightly less grumpy response :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Apple, like any smart company, makes technology decisions based on lots of variables -- what technology makes sense? what technology doesn't make sense? what is the expertise of our current staffing? what are the goals for the project? etc ... I love WO, but I'm also the first to admit that WO and EOF aren't the right fit for every problem. There are parts of WOF and EOF that drive me crazy, and there are parts that are amazing. I also don't think that being WO inherently makes you scalable any more than I think being a Rails app makes you inherently unscalable. It's just like the NoSQL vs Relational debate. Are relational databases dead? No. That's just silly. But do NoSQL databases have a place? Absolutely -- they bring value to a certain set of problems that relational doesn't address well. Likewise, Apple has public web properties that are static html, php, struts, jsf, jsp, sproutcore, webobjects, and I'm sure others and there are lots of different reasons in each
>>> of those cases why decisions were made one way or another. In any complex system, you're probably going to end up with a mix of technologies. As far as "details," you're just not going to get them because Apple doesn't roll that way.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ms
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2010, at 2:54 AM, Mertz Stéphan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The new 'the Sales and Trend reporting module' of iTunes Connect is develop with JSF instead of WebObjects.
>>>>>>>>>> Does Apple stop to use WebObjects for its internal tools?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Does someone know what is powering the new Ping social network ?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Stéphan _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> socket error: unable to connect to 127.0.0.1
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>>
>>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development
>>>>
>>>> Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems.
>>>> http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>
>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 6
>>> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 20:00:43 -0400
>>> From: Pascal Robert <email@hidden>
>>> Subject: WOCommunity 2010 surveys
>>> To: Apple WO-Dev <email@hidden>
>>> Message-ID: <email@hidden>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Ok guys,
>>>
>>> While I'm listening to all WOWODC 2010 recordings, I'm preparing the 2010 surveys. I have put the surveys in the wiki so people can add suggestions and comments before I open the survey.
>>>
>>> Organization Survey : http://wiki.objectstyle.org/confluence/x/lYF9
>>>
>>> Individual Survey : http://wiki.objectstyle.org/confluence/x/l4F9
>>>
>>> Will also prepare a survey specific to WOWODC later.
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>> URL: http://lists.apple.com/pipermail/webobjects-dev/attachments/20100910/50dd57a2/attachment.html
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list
>>> email@hidden
>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/webobjects-dev
>>>
>>> End of Webobjects-dev Digest, Vol 7, Issue 555
>>> **********************************************
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>
>> This email sent to email@hidden
>
> _______________________________________________
> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>
> This email sent to email@hidden
_______________________________________________
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list (email@hidden)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
This email sent to email@hidden