Re: WOWODC 2011 recordings
Re: WOWODC 2011 recordings
- Subject: Re: WOWODC 2011 recordings
- From: Pascal Robert <email@hidden>
- Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2011 17:55:51 -0400
Le 2011-07-05 à 17:06, Hugi Thordarson a écrit :
> Hi Ramsey :)
>
>> I was there Hugi and I think I missed something (^_^)
>
> : )
>
>
>> I though the discussion was about forking Wonder, which seemed a little odd to me considering we have github nowadays. Anyone can fork it and if you attract a following, so be it.
>
> Well, in theory that sounds nice, but is it really a good idea to fragment an already tiny community? If I create a fork of Project Wonder and it becomes *amazingly* popular, I'll have what — 10 users?
>
>
>> If we are discussing a WO fork... I wonder, has anyone ever actually asked Apple if they are willing to open source the WO 5.4.3 release? The Java people made enough noise to get Apple's JDK source released to Oracle for OpenJDK. We aren't as large as they are, but I would argue that we are more important to Apple's operations. Certainly Apple would see a lot of value in having a healthy community of WO devs to pluck.
>
> It's been established that Apple doesn't care — there's a 10 year track record to prove it.
>
>
>> Legal issues aside, it would be much easier to simply get Apple's blessing. They have gobs of money. It isn't like they can't afford to throw us a bone. There should at least be a petition to ask them formally if that hasn't already been done.
>
> Again, Apple doesn't care about WO, Apple has never cared about WO and Apple will never care about WO. And if you wait for Apple to care about WO you will die an unhappy, bitter shell of a person.
>
> I work at a generic java shop and I want to use WO, but I can't because Apple's WO license doesn't allow my colleagues to use it on their non-Apple hardware. This is silly and Apple probably knows it, but they don't care. And really, that's totally understandable. They're Apple. Their business is computers and phones, and they have no incentive to care about a handful of web developers using some 10 year old technology they inherited from a company they bought.
>
> Apple has *never* been there for us and never will be. So what I'd love is a WO without Apple. Imagine the things we could accomplish without their ancient jar-files weighing us down.
>
> I'd love to participate in a community supported clean room reimplementation of the frameworks vital to the future of *Wonder* (which is, as we all know, the real WO and the future of the community). There's really only four major frameworks that need rewriting; foundation, appserver, eocontrol and eoaccess. They're not that big - and some of the work has already been done in Wonder.
But we will need law people to find out if WO still have patents on it and what kind of legal problems we can have if we decide to redo WO with the same API calls but with a different implementation.
> Sounds crazy? Yes. But it's a heck of a lot less crazy than expecting Apple to suddenly show up and actually do something.
I think we made it clear at WOWODC that Apple won't give us anything, and if they do, it will be in Wonder.
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