Re: Lion and WO
Re: Lion and WO
- Subject: Re: Lion and WO
- From: Q <email@hidden>
- Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 10:07:39 +1000
650 million rows, 230Gig, growth rate of ~20 rows/sec, ~5 queries/sec
MySQL = KaBoom! :(
PostgreSQL = Mostly idle.
MySQL is fine for simple queries and datasets that don't need lots of IO. For complex queries, or very large datasets MySQL's index handling and query planner are garbage, but that's not what MySQL was designed to be used for.
On 28/07/2011, at 4:01 AM, Kieran Kelleher wrote:
> I find it hard to believe that such a table would cause MySQL to fall over. Possibly your engine selection, /etc/my.cnf and/or hardware/memory allocations might not have been appropriate in the setup that failed to meet your expectations. I found this book helped a few years back when I got started with MySQL http://amzn.com/0596101716 - and, as I have said before, the default out of the box settings in MySQL are dismally constrained and probably designed for someone doing basic development on a small memory PC.
>
> Other than the lack of deferred constraints, and associated workarounds, I have found MySQL to be just fine in practice for tables in the 10 to 70 million range, albeit, in production I usually try to have enough memory (relatively inexpensive) to cover the entire DB.
>
> In any case, for the average WO developer, probably any one of the popular dbs such as Frontbase, MySQL or PostgreSQL would be just fine. If I was starting right now and had to spend the time becoming familiar with the detailed ins/outs/ and configuration of a new database platform, I would probably try PostgreSQL since it has deferred constraints and it is open source.
>
> Cheers, Kieran
>
> On Jul 27, 2011, at 9:48 AM, Andrew Satori wrote:
>
>> roughly 20 million rows in a table with ~120 columns in the table.
>>
>> On Jul 27, 2011, at 1:14 AM, Kieran Kelleher wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Andrew.
>>>
>>> What exactly was the scale/size of your MySQL database that caused it to fall over? Row count? (Row count x field count) max?
>>>
>>> Regards, Kieran.
>>> (Sent from my iPhone)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 26, 2011, at 2:48 PM, Andrew Satori <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>
>>>> To a degree, but if you have committed to the MySQL way to get past it's core weaknesses, you have also made transitioning to anything else very very hard. In the case of Facebook, they have hit the wall where the front end is still scaling, but the backend is not. It is so wedded to it's MySQL roots though, they are not in a position to replace the backend with something that scales well.
>>>>
>>>> OpenBase, FrontBase, and to a lesser degree, PostgreSQL limit how much of this trap by implementing a greater subset of 'common' functionality. That comes at the cost of some friendly behaviors towards web development though.
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 26, 2011, at 2:09 PM, Travis Britt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> FWIW, once you reach that level scaling on *anything* is hard.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 26, 2011, at 6:02 AM, email@hidden wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, the issue I have in general is that the market seems to have adopted a MySQL or commercial mindset. MySQL is, to put it mildly, a trap. Skipping over the license issues, and going straight to the real stuff, MySQL has been shown repeatedly to have very real and finite limits on growth and scalability. Google, twitter, facebook, etc have all built foundations on MySQL only to hit walls, and implement obscenely expensive workarounds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The problem is that the alternatives do not cater to the web dev platform, and they lose in the "startup" phases despite long term advantages. LAMP has become a liability. Too many people assume with knowing, and it is killing techs like WO.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It gets worse when you mix in python and coredata/sqllite. Ever used apple's teams wiki server. Uggh, what a mess. It will come full circle. I still have a coup,e WO projects but most of my new work is objective c or c++ cgi implementation. It is fast, scalable, portable, and I do not have to deal with 10 layers of stack to make things work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I love WO, I hate the scripting environments, and .net is an equal disaster to LAMP. Basically, the web toolkits have gotten worse, not better.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- Sent from my HP TouchPad
>>>>>> On Jul 25, 2011 11:51 PM, Chuck Hill <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>>> FrontBase is pretty quiet these days too, though the dev list does see some traffic and there are new releases. Marketing a proprietary SQL database these days is swimming upstream, you can't expect wide success. FrontBase fills a niche market, of which WO is probably less and less every year. As long as their goal is to target their niche (and they do so well), they will keep going. Neither FrontBase or OpenBase are ever going to replace MySQL.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2011-07-25, at 8:45 PM, Tim Worman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now that right there IS funny. But if no one were on the list to see that and laugh, then I'd have to develop in something other than WO. :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tim Worman
>>>>>>> UCLA GSE&IS
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jul 25, 2011, at 8:36 PM, John Huss wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't know what I would do if I was using some proprietary technology that hadn't been updated in years, with almost no communication from the company in charge of it! What is that like? ;-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 10:22 PM, Tim Worman <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Openbase has been a great product from day one. And integrating it with WO definitely is seamless. I'm a fan. But the developer list has fallen completely silent and it used to be vibrant. The product hasn't had any public updates since 2009 - I don't think it is because there is nothing to do.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm in no hurry at all to move my server but I do have to develop against something and that can't be Openbase if I'm running Lion. The tweet indicating that a beta has been "released" is one of only two from the company since Feb 2010.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tim Worman
>>>>>>>> UCLA GSE&IS
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>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems.
>>>>>> http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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