Re: Making code available & license (was Re: Examles from apple webobjects 5.4.3 any good)
Re: Making code available & license (was Re: Examles from apple webobjects 5.4.3 any good)
- Subject: Re: Making code available & license (was Re: Examles from apple webobjects 5.4.3 any good)
- From: Chuck Hill <email@hidden>
- Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 13:40:12 -0700
No one expects The Spanish Inquisition!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSe38dzJYkY
On May 12, 2011, at 1:20 PM, Ramsey Gurley wrote:
> Drats! That shady Chuck Hill character strikes again (^_~)
>
> Ramsey
>
> On May 12, 2011, at 1:14 PM, Dov Rosenberg wrote:
>
>> We had a code scan done using Protex Black Duck. The only thing that was
>> flagged from Project Wonder was they found similar references to Chuck
>> Hill's GVCSiteMaker which was released under an Educational Community
>> License. It took a bit of explaining to document the relationship between
>> GVCSiteMaker and Project Wonder.
>>
>> We only use ERExtensions and ERJgroupsSynchronizer
>>
>> Dov
>>
>> On 5/12/11 12:04 PM, "Ramsey Gurley" <email@hidden> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On May 12, 2011, at 10:43 AM, Dov Rosenberg wrote:
>>>
>>>> The key part of the GPL license that poisons its use for commercial
>>>> purposes is the very first clause:
>>>>
>>>> 0. This License applies to any program or other work which contains
>>>> a notice placed by the copyright holder saying it may be distributed
>>>> under the terms of this General Public License. The "Program", below,
>>>> refers to any such program or work, and a "work based on the Program"
>>>> means either the Program or any derivative work under copyright law:
>>>> that is to say, a work containing the Program or a portion of it,
>>>> either verbatim or with modifications and/or translated into another
>>>> language.
>>>>
>>>> If your program makes use of a piece of GPL code and will not function
>>>> without it it is considered a derivative work and must be distributed
>>>> under the GPL license.
>>>
>>> To my knowledge, this is a statement of opinion with no basis in case
>>> law. Furthermore, according to IP Law Specialist and OSI general counsel
>>> Lawrence Rosen:
>>>
>>> "The primary indication of whether a new program is a derivative work is
>>> whether the source code of the original program was used, modified,
>>> translated or otherwise changed in any way to create the new program. If
>>> not, then I would argue that it is not a derivative work."
>>>
>>> http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/6366
>>>
>>> That is also how I read section 2 of GPL v2.
>>>
>>> I haven't gotten a C&D from the GPL police yet, so I can only assume
>>> we're fine. In fact, if you think Wonder is in violation of the GPL, I
>>> would encourage you to report it immediately:
>>>
>>> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/enforcing-gpl.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Ramsey
>>>
>>>>
>>>> We had to remove the MySQL JDBC driver from our software that we used
>>>> to ship as a convenience for customers. They can download it themselves
>>>> and use it but we can not supply it as part of our commercial product.
>>>>
>>>> The SAP/Oracle lawsuit was based on the fact that even though you can
>>>> download anything for free off Oracle's website to evaluate you are
>>>> still bound by the terms of the license agreement that you have to agree
>>>> to get the software, regardless if you read and or understand it.
>>>> Whether it is distributing a jar that should be paid for, or using a
>>>> component in an unlicensed manner either of those things are cause for a
>>>> lawsuit. Especially if you are a large company with deep pockets
>>>>
>>>> Dov
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 5/12/11 10:28 AM, "Ramsey Gurley"
>>>> <email@hidden<mailto:email@hidden>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 12, 2011, at 8:43 AM, Dov Rosenberg wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Depends if you want to make money from your app or not. In either case
>>>> the license that you release your app under can't violate the terms of
>>>> any of the components included in your app. If you included GPL licensed
>>>> components it would be a violation of the GPL license to charge money
>>>> for your app. See the note from the GPL v2 license below
>>>> 2. You may modify your copy or copies of the Program or any portion
>>>> of it, thus forming a work based on the Program, and copy and
>>>> distribute such modifications or work under the terms of Section 1
>>>> above, provided that you also meet all of these conditions:
>>>> Š
>>>> b) You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in
>>>> whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any
>>>> part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third
>>>> parties under the terms of this License.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sorry... am I misreading something?
>>>>
>>>> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html
>>>>
>>>> That section is based on the opening statement. I'm not a lawyer, but
>>>> I like to believe I have a pretty firm grasp of the english language. As
>>>> far as I can tell, 2 b) only applies if you first "modify your copy or
>>>> copies of the Program".
>>>>
>>>> Nowhere does it state that including a GPL'ed binary library in your
>>>> app forbids you from selling your own code under any license you see
>>>> fit. To further clarify 2 a) b) and c), the license immediately follows
>>>> with:
>>>>
>>>> "These requirements apply to the modified work as a whole. If
>>>> identifiable sections of that work are not derived from the Program, and
>>>> can be reasonably considered independent and separate works in
>>>> themselves, then this License, and its terms, do not apply to those
>>>> sections when you distribute them as separate works"
>>>>
>>>> Regarding the article you linked to, I don't see any mention of OSS or
>>>> GPL anywhere. It appears to be an article about piracy of commercial
>>>> enterprise software. I certainly didn't see any corroborating
>>>> information or case law which would interpret the above statements as:
>>>> "it would be a violation of the GPL license to charge money for your app"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ramsey
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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--
Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development
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