| That Crazy Manager Paul... ;)
Very proud of you, Paula.
Paul On Sep 26, 2011, at 4:04 PM, Paula Loehr wrote:
As a front end applications developer of a WO application, when I transferred to our WO project 4 years ago, I didn’t know WO at all. I came from a PC background, so for that matter I didn’t know the MAC world at all (all my PC friends told me I had transferred over to the dark side. I agree and I’ll never go back to PCs). I have a CS and Math degree, had been in Systems Integration and IT Support for many years, had programmed in C, taught myself HTML, had written numerous PC database applications and knew how to analyze and automate companies business processes.
So, I started on this WO application, didn’t have prior experience with Client/Server applications, WO, Eclipse, Confluence, Jira or Macs and I lived 2000 miles from all the developers on the team only to see them once a month. Some days I wanted to ask questions via IM of someone else on the team and once I was sure that my question would sound logical, I’d finally ask someone only to get a response back that made no sense to me. The business process that I was working on was also difficult and detailed as well as the existing database design for the rest of the project. Its schema took up half a wall in Paul’s office, so I had to understand that too.
With all that said, I clearly remember, as though it were yesterday, there was one morning, when I was working and all of the sudden it hit me. I kept saying to myself, “I get it, oh my gosh, I got this. I understand. I see how this all (well, maybe not “all”) fits together.” However, working from home, there was no one else to share in my excitement except my dog, Pugley, (yes, she’s a pug). So, I had only a couple months to frantically code everything and meet my deadline that was only a couple months away. I know my coding wasn’t perfect even once “I got it”, but as I continued coding and kept following other’s coding patterns, I kept learning more and more and had many more “Ah Ha” moments. I was also fortunate to have many colleagues that were very gracious and willing to answer my questions and help bring me up to speed. For those that don’t have that, the WebObjects Mailing List is a great alternative. I’ve only posted to the list twice, but each time I received responses that helped solve my problems.
I just had to comment on this thread because I love programming in WO now. I think it’s intuitive (sure I say that now) and makes Client Server application development straightforward! If what you’re looking for is someone to work on the front end then it’s important to find a well rounded person who understands object oriented design and coding, can understand the customer’s needs, convert those needs into a design and then build that product (WO can be learned), and if you’re looking for someone to work on your framework and continue to expand that, then yes, you need someone who is much more technical and understands the nitty-gritty.
I hope there are many more applications in the future that will be based on WebObjects.
Paula
On 9/26/11 5:48 AM, "Pascal Robert" <email@hidden> wrote:
Le 2011-09-26 à 07:36, Paul Yu a écrit :
My experience with hiring programmers.
Type 1: Chasing after the next job. The only reason that they want your job is so it prepares them for their next job. They want the acronyms of the day to beef up their resume. These guys usually have a lot of acronyms and certifications on their resume already. These people would not want to learn WebObjects, and you probably don't want to hire these people for you lean startup any way.
+1. And that's why, when doing interviews, I always ask people why they got in IT and if they participate in open source projects or other development stuff. If they said they are only programming for their job or they got in IT for the pay or they only program at their job, they loose points.
Type 2: Good programmers. Good programmers are hard to find in this very competitive environment. Good programmers in the java space, when presented with WebObjects will appreciate its elegance and want to learn it. However, if I were a good programmer today, I would be learning iOS development first.
The challenge that we face as a community is that Apple has pulled a lot of people into their vortex. There are not many WebObjects ready people available to help on projects any more. So even small startups like my own will need to look at growing our own teams. As suggested, a good existing project/program will help new people transition easier, but without good training... This is a chicken-egg problem. Without the demand for the training...
We have to make WO "cool" again, so that means a new "WO in 5 minutes" presentation, a presentation tailored for iOS people, etc., and a presentation without some ugly French Canadian accent in it.
I wish this was easier...
Paul
On Sep 26, 2011, at 7:21 AM, Marius Soutier wrote:
On 26.09.2011, at 12:57, Jim Kinsey wrote:
experienced JEE types who have all the certs under the Sun
Nice one! :)
I agree with you, people who know Java well and have at least basic Cocoa / CocoaTouch exp should be able to grasp WO rather quickly.
I'll check out the Community Talk now, thanks for so much input. A good community is also a big plus :)
- Marius
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Paula Loehr
K12 Inc
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