Re: Finding WO people for startups (cult of the dead)
Re: Finding WO people for startups (cult of the dead)
- Subject: Re: Finding WO people for startups (cult of the dead)
- From: email@hidden
- Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 12:19:00 -0400
Hi Marius,
It's really up to you. It doesn't matter
what development tools / frameworks you pick. You can make a good product
in JSP... at some point your dedication and attitude determine how far
you'll go and the rest doesn't matter.
That being said, remember with Ruby
on Rails everything is a "Direct Action". If that is ok with
you, then that is ok. Personally I like to decide when to use "Component
Actions" and when to use "Direct Actions" because there
is a purpose for both.
Finding good, interesting, talented
people is hard. I think it is *easier* to find them when you are working
with esoteric tools. If they balk at the idea of WO, then you don't want
them anyway - that's a big time saver! You want people who believe in your
vision above all else. The tools shouldn't matter to them and if they do,
those people are not for you.
For me, on a technical level, it's hard
to find something better than WO. I do not like the closed nature of it
but that is what it is.
In your situation you are throwing out
all kinds of technologies and thinking in all directions. Maybe take a
month to indulge so you may "play" with them all without any
other purpose. Do some simple proof of concept projects. Get a lay of the
land. Personally I do this every 6 months to a year to satisfy my own intellectual
curiosity and see if there is something better than WO.
From a person who has tried a lot of
tools there is one that I'm surprised did not make your short list especially
given your geographical area and your WO experience. Do consider Smalltalk
with "Seaside." It's relatively big in Europe meaning they have
the equivalent of WOWODC for Smalltalk called ESUG.
What is cool about Smalltalk / Seaside
with respect to WO?
1) It has stateful and stateless ability
(Both "component actions" and "direct actions")
2) It has D2W (Magritte)
3) It has distributed version control
(Monticello)
4) It has a no-nonsense one-click installer
5) Even better than "in-line"
binding it has no template file what-so-ever by design. All your HTML output
is coded in the programming language. No more unbalanced DIV tags. Everything
is refactorable.
6) You can choose ORM or Object Database...
We have objects, why do we need to model them down to relational tables?
Now the choice is yours.
7) totally open source. Even better,
you can see and make changes on the fly. You don't need to tack on a product
like Java Rebel, you get this automatically.
To sum it up java is a "dead"
language. Those who love it blindly are members of the "cult of the
dead". With eclipse java is like the "living dead" because
you can quickly see who is calling what, refactor, etc. In other words
you generally have to compile and then run Java to make it live. Conversely
Smalltalk is a "living" language in every sense of the word.
Oh, and Pascal, WO never stopped being
cool. We are a good confederacy here. We put the cool in WO.
It's not what you have, it's how you
use it ;-)
Best wishes,
-- Aaron
> Thanks to both of you, Philippe
and Pascal, for some challenging insight, got me thinking a lot.
>
> Yes there's a lot of stuff for
Java, that's really great. That's also why I like Scala and Clojure so
> much, but the frameworks aren't
ready yet. Do you have any >experience with Lift? Or Play?
>
> One thing I really like about RoR
is Ruby, it's so much better than Java. Is Java really a good
> language for a startup? I'm not
sure. I also stumbled across Sinatra, what a revelation...
> I've read your link, Philippe,
but there are also some interesting comments...
>
> Deployment on the other hand is
one of the things with WebObjects which gives me a
> constant headache, WOMonitor has
a lot of issues (e.g. doesn't restart scheduled apps,
> or a lot of time outs) and I never
managed to deploy a WO app in a Servlet container.
>
> Bye,
> - Marius _______________________________________________
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