Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple
Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple
- Subject: Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple
- From: Hugi Thordarson <email@hidden>
- Date: Wed, 04 May 2016 13:35:58 +0000
>>> If you think about it, one of the reasons they are bringing Swift to Linux is because they want a cool language on the server as well as on the client and leverage the code and libraries on both.
>>>
>>> At some point these developers need an ORM framework. Either Apple or someone else will do it in pure Swift without requiring the Objective-C run-time. Possibly a future Core Data. Then they'll need a templating request handling framework like WebObjects for Swift. And a REST framework. Let's bug Federighi with emails about bringing this back. :-)
>>
>> Federighi probably cares a lot about WO/EOF since he spent years reimplementing it at Ariba ( http://aribaweb.org/ ). But I doubt he has the time or support to do anything about WO within Apple. It’s a market Apple simply isn’t in.
>>
>
> I remembered Ariba and the time he spent there too and it's part of why I was wondering if he had any love left for WebObjects. :-)
>
> Also I can't imagine working on the server side without something like EOF/WebObjects.
Yeah… I’ve made more than quite a few attempts at using them #different technologies" and I’m now quite sure that I’d rather spend my time re-implementing something WebObjects-like than spend time using bad tech. I don’t really love programming (okay, maybe I do, but for the sake of argument, let’s say I don’t :). I just love creating stuff people want to use and WO really enables that.
>>> until I realize that I am married with four kids and a full time job that leaves me with no spare time left to work on things like this. :-)
I can relate :)
>> We already have a clean room reimplementation of EOF—it’s called Cayenne and I’m now using it in all of our projects. We just need to figure out what to do with the presentation layer (WO).
>>
>
> I think that is great for new projects. I was thinking of something API compatible with EOF for those of us who have built large systems with WO/EOF to make the transition less traumatic. :-)
The transition from EOF to Cayenne is actually not very traumatic. If you use WO-looking templates to generate entity classes, the rest of the API looks really, really similar. In most cases, it’s really only a question of changing class names.
Cheers,
- hugi
>
>> - hugi
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On May 4, 2016, at 4:48 AM, Hugi Thordarson <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Probably no one as surprised as myself. I probably sent dozens of e-mails to sjobs on the subject trough the years without receiving a reply. But to Tim’s credit, it only took four emails before I was contacted. He’s a lot less stubborn, obviously.
>>>>
>>>> And we Viking are a misunderstood, peaceful people. Apart from sending angry emails to corporate executives, these days we mostly conduct our coastal raids through Panamian law firms using money stored in offshore companies. It’s so much easier than eating psychoactive mushrooms and running around raping and pillaging.
>>>>
>>>> - hugi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 3. maí 2016, at 23:22, Chuck Hill <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The Viking Tradition lives on!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: David LeBer <email@hidden>
>>>>> Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 4:20 PM
>>>>> To: Chuck Hill <email@hidden>
>>>>> Cc: WebObjects-Dev <email@hidden>
>>>>> Subject: Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, I was surprised by that too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Apple rarely gives definitive statements on anything, let alone a long dead and forgotten product ;)
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> D
>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 3, 2016 at 7:11:05 PM, Chuck Hill (email@hidden) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am surprised that Hugi got a clear statement from Apple. That must have taken some persistence! “Frank, this damn Hugi guy keeps bugging us every year, get rid of him!”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2016-05-03, 4:04 PM, "webobjects-dev-bounces+chill=email@hidden on behalf of Pascal Robert" <webobjects-dev-bounces+chill=email@hidden on behalf of email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Le 3 mai 2016 à 12:47, Flavio Donadio <email@hidden> a écrit :
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hugi,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That’s bad news, but it’s exactly what we expected, in a certain way. The silence and lack of updates for such a long time were telling us the truth, although we wouldn’t accept it — there had to be a final word, straight from the horse’s mouth! I guess we have it now.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, they say WO is dead. We say “long live, WO!"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We should move on to the next step: nagging Apple to release WO/EOF as open source software! ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This topic comes around every year. Multiple people asked this to Apple over the last 7 years. It won’t happen. Final.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Flavio
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 03/05/2016, at 12:19, Hugi Thordarson <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi all.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We probably all know that WO's been practically dead to Apple for a long time, but unfortunately Apple has refused to state so officially (at least I don't recall there being an official statement).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anyhow… In the past years I've regularly sent letters to Tim Cook, asking about the state of WO (being the naggy guy I am) and recently, I was contacted by Apple executive relations regarding my questions. The guy I spoke to called a couple of times, at first, he had absolutely no idea what WO was but the second time he called, he had obtained information and had a clear statement: "WebObjects is a discontinued product and will never be upgraded".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I know this information is extremely redundant, but I still wanted to tell you since it was something of a relief. Felt a little like the police calling you to let you know that they'd found the remains of your friend that's been missing for 15 years and finally declared him dead.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But of course, this changes nothing; WO is still better than ever. We just need to continue to distance Wonder from WO and move forward.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>> - hugi
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