Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple
Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple
- Subject: Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple
- From: Hugi Thordarson <email@hidden>
- Date: Wed, 04 May 2016 14:07:58 +0000
Agreed. Especially on KVC being the colloquial “shit”. A few years back, Q created an open source implementation of Foundation (including KVC) which should fit the bill should someone like to do some re-implementing. I’ve been planning to work with this for a WO-reimplementation for quite a while, but like Ricardo I’ve had a hard time fitting it in with the whole wife and children thing :).
https://github.com/qdolan/NSFoundation4J
- hugi
> On 4. maí 2016, at 13:28, Samuel Pelletier <email@hidden> wrote:
>
> Cayenne is a clean room implementation of something like EOF. At least, I think it was the project goal and seems very mature, I would not spend time to write something else.
>
> The magic part of WO come from Key Value Coding and the WO component request handling that map the action and call them after setting all the variable to the expected value. This is a huge time saver for complex app, especially with complex object graphs.
>
> With WO, you can build very complex UI without having to think on how I would determine on which value I should apply the action. This can be a real pain to do manually with nested repetitions (and it may open many security holes). Yes, these URL does not support the back button and are not bookmark savvy but for management systems, this is not a problem. For high volume public sites with REST like URL or simple REST gateway to a data storage, there are many very good alternative out there.
>
> KVC also allows ERXKeys and easy component writing and usage.
>
> Samuel
>
>
>> Le 4 mai 2016 à 08:03, Ricardo Parada <email@hidden> a écrit :
>>
>> If you think about it, one of the reasons they are bringing Swift to Linux is because they want a cool language on the server as well as on the client and leverage the code and libraries on both.
>>
>> At some point these developers need an ORM framework. Either Apple or someone else will do it in pure Swift without requiring the Objective-C run-time. Possibly a future Core Data. Then they'll need a templating request handling framework like WebObjects for Swift. And a REST framework. Let's bug Federighi with emails about bringing this back. :-)
>>
>> Anyways, putting all this day dreaming aside I think we need a clean room implementation of EOF as it had been described before. I have worked at al levels in EOF and I feel this would be possible until I realize that I am married with four kids and a full time job that leaves me with no spare time left to work on things like this. :-)
>>
>> Was the idea of a clean room implementation of EOF abandoned?
>>
>>
>> On May 4, 2016, at 4:48 AM, Hugi Thordarson <email@hidden> wrote:
>>
>>> Probably no one as surprised as myself. I probably sent dozens of e-mails to sjobs on the subject trough the years without receiving a reply. But to Tim’s credit, it only took four emails before I was contacted. He’s a lot less stubborn, obviously.
>>>
>>> And we Viking are a misunderstood, peaceful people. Apart from sending angry emails to corporate executives, these days we mostly conduct our coastal raids through Panamian law firms using money stored in offshore companies. It’s so much easier than eating psychoactive mushrooms and running around raping and pillaging.
>>>
>>> - hugi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 3. maí 2016, at 23:22, Chuck Hill <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The Viking Tradition lives on!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: David LeBer <email@hidden>
>>>> Date: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 at 4:20 PM
>>>> To: Chuck Hill <email@hidden>
>>>> Cc: WebObjects-Dev <email@hidden>
>>>> Subject: Re: WebObjects officially declared dead by Apple
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, I was surprised by that too.
>>>>
>>>> Apple rarely gives definitive statements on anything, let alone a long dead and forgotten product ;)
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> D
>>>>
>>>> On May 3, 2016 at 7:11:05 PM, Chuck Hill (email@hidden) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I am surprised that Hugi got a clear statement from Apple. That must have taken some persistence! “Frank, this damn Hugi guy keeps bugging us every year, get rid of him!”
>>>>>
>>>>> :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2016-05-03, 4:04 PM, "webobjects-dev-bounces+chill=email@hidden on behalf of Pascal Robert" <webobjects-dev-bounces+chill=email@hidden on behalf of email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Le 3 mai 2016 à 12:47, Flavio Donadio <email@hidden> a écrit :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hugi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That’s bad news, but it’s exactly what we expected, in a certain way. The silence and lack of updates for such a long time were telling us the truth, although we wouldn’t accept it — there had to be a final word, straight from the horse’s mouth! I guess we have it now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, they say WO is dead. We say “long live, WO!"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We should move on to the next step: nagging Apple to release WO/EOF as open source software! ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This topic comes around every year. Multiple people asked this to Apple over the last 7 years. It won’t happen. Final.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Flavio
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 03/05/2016, at 12:19, Hugi Thordarson <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi all.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We probably all know that WO's been practically dead to Apple for a long time, but unfortunately Apple has refused to state so officially (at least I don't recall there being an official statement).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyhow… In the past years I've regularly sent letters to Tim Cook, asking about the state of WO (being the naggy guy I am) and recently, I was contacted by Apple executive relations regarding my questions. The guy I spoke to called a couple of times, at first, he had absolutely no idea what WO was but the second time he called, he had obtained information and had a clear statement: "WebObjects is a discontinued product and will never be upgraded".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I know this information is extremely redundant, but I still wanted to tell you since it was something of a relief. Felt a little like the police calling you to let you know that they'd found the remains of your friend that's been missing for 15 years and finally declared him dead.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But of course, this changes nothing; WO is still better than ever. We just need to continue to distance Wonder from WO and move forward.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> - hugi
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