Re: OT: Better setup for me? (was Re: Problems with current Apple X11 package)
Re: OT: Better setup for me? (was Re: Problems with current Apple X11 package)
- Subject: Re: OT: Better setup for me? (was Re: Problems with current Apple X11 package)
- From: Randy Ford <email@hidden>
- Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 22:10:48 -0600
On Sunday, February 2, 2003, at 05:46 PM, magenta wrote:
I guess it really depends on what Apple wants out of X11.app. Do they
want
to make it easy for UNIX people to "port" their applications to Apple
for
casual end-users, or do they want ot make it easy for UNIX people to
use
the applications that they're used to?
I'm not sure it's an either/or case. I think they would like to do
both. I think part of the difference is that you can use the
applications like you are used to, but have a different way of
interacting with the window manager.
Many corporate processing centers have hundreds of people using X11
applications. Most of them used to have X-Terminals for each rep.
Many of those have now put PCs running an X-Server in their place.
However, the cost of maintaining the PCs is far higher than it was to
maintain the X-Terminal, and the productivity is lower. The main
reason that the X-Terminals were replaced was to allow the users to run
MS Office.
For Apple to take over those centers, they will have to display the
same X11 applications as did the X-Terminals and PC X-Servers. The
apps are just too costly to port or rewrite.
For the other apps that can be ported, Apple will want them to be moved
to OS X servers. To support this, Apple will have to make it easy to
port the applications from Sun, HP, and Dec platforms, as well as MS
ones. This will keep X11.app and OS X where it will support the apps
that the hard-core Unix user wants.
Now, back to the windows manager. To ease the transition, some centers
may want to keep the CDE or other windows manager that the users are
used to. However, many of the centers currently have a customized,
limited environment that only allows the users to access a few apps.
Apple will have to support something similar to the legacy environment.
They will also want to have an OS X "native" windows manager that will
make it easy for the majority of centers where the user will be using
the common Mac apps as well.
To win in the large corporate call centers that I think Apple is aiming
for, they will have to make it easy to not just port applications that
run on the machine, but client/server and multi-tiered applications
where they are "just" an X-Terminal. These service centers are also,
in many cases, the key to getting on the desktops of the rest of the
people in the company. Winning the service center will lead to winning
much of the rest of the company's business.
For Apple to do this, they will have to do both things: make it easy
for UNIX people to "port" their applications to Apple for casual
end-users, _and_ they will have to make it easy for UNIX people to use
the applications that they're used to. (However, that doesn't mean it
has to be an Apple provided window manager.)
The views taken by most of the
poeple on this list seem to assume the former (what with all the "my
grandma wouldn't understand [foo]" arguments; but why would "my
grandma" be
running xterm and GIMP and so on to begin with?).
I believe that Apple will keep a "granny" interface, they have also
gone to a lot of effort to provide Unix tools for those who want to do
other things. Apple is shipping with better development tools than Sun
and HP. (My knowledge is dated here.) They are probably the
commercial vendor who is the most supportive of advanced users and
developers. I believe that they will work to ensure that we can run
our advanced tools in an environment that is comfortable to us.
However, since we are more sophisticated users who are used to
finding/porting/installing/modifying our own apps, I don't think that
Apple needs to provide all of those tools to us.
Apple has a need to provide a rootless X11 windows manager that works
nearly seamlessly with "native" OS X windows. They do not need to
provide a rooted one for us because they are already available through
means that we are comfortable with. Eventually they will probably have
to actively support a rooted one for some of those corporate service
centers.
Apple hasn't yet forgotten about us Unix people. Note that the only
X11 application that starts by default with X11.app is an xterm. Also,
the beta doesn't show that a lot of effort has been put into making it
easy for the "granny" user. X11 apps won't launch from the finder, and
the Application menu in X11.app is pretty primitive. Since it would be
easy to make the menu multiple level like the bookmarks bar in Safari,
I suspect this means they really are working on the other more
technical items that will help use. However, like they've said, things
like rooted windows and raise separate from focus are probably not
going to happen soon.
randy.
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