Re: Raise-on-Focus
Re: Raise-on-Focus
- Subject: Re: Raise-on-Focus
- From: Randy Ford <email@hidden>
- Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2003 03:08:02 -0600
On Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 02:03 PM, Eugene Lee wrote:
On Sat, Feb 01, 2003 at 10:59:40AM -0800, William Julien wrote:
:
: I work on a many X11 based systems. I find that the system works best
: with "focus follows mouse" and "click to raise". Just my $.02
The problem with choosing both of these options is that once a window
has the focus, the only way to raise to the frontmost position is to
click on some window widget/decoration, like the title bar. But if the
title bar of the window with the focus is hidden behind another window,
how do you raise the original window?
Ooh, Ooh, can I spend my 2 cents?
I prefer click-to-focus, but not raise. I can click on border or title
to raise. I can hit a meta-key to raise the window with focus. It
didn't take much to get used to clicking on the border/title by
"default" since much of the time I want raise and focus together. I
get the best of all worlds: no cursor in the way, layer windows as I
want with focus where I want, and can use meta-keys for almost all
window manager interactions. ( I don't use emacs, so I don't normally
have meta keys mapped to things other than the wm. Viva la vi. )
However, I'm not sure that Apple is going to put a lot of effort into
helping me to work that way. I have a lot of other window managers
from which to chose, or I can modify one however I want. I'm hoping
that Apple provides two things with X11: help Mac-specific
improvements, such as speed and cut/paste operations, get worked back
into other open source projects, and, in MacOS 10.3 or 10.4, provide
X11 as an integral part of OS X.
If Apple releases the source for the changes to X11, everybody who
uses/likes X11 will benefit. Apple may not even have to release
Quartz-wm code, although that would be preferable.
If Apple does make X11 an integral part of OS X, then their window
manager will have to provide OS X-like mappings, not the ones that I'm
used to. The target for that will be the common non-Unix-geeks. A
"normal" user should be able to use X11 apps on the MacOS desktop
without even recognizing that they are different from other OS X apps.
I want focus and raise to be separate, but if Apple doesn't provide
that for non-X11 apps, they wouldn't for X11 built into OS X: it would
cause too much confusion.
If Apple releases the code for whatever improvements they make, all of
my needs/wants will probably be met by other X-Servers/Window Managers.
If they make X11 work just like the rest of OS X, my wife, kids,
mother, and the corporate desktop users' needs will be met. I really
don't see Apple, in the near future, trying to make Quartz-wm into the
be-all-and-end-all window manager for X11. If even a few of the
customizations that X11 provides becomes part of the native OS X window
manager, we will be better off than we are today.
I want to see Apple succeed at getting OS X with X11 on my family and
friends desktops, as well as on the desktops of the corporate work
centers where tens or hundreds of reps work. To do this, Apple will
have to provide a consistent interface, not necessarily the most
configurable one. By adding "native" X11, they open the door to the
corporate desktop, and greatly increase the number of OS X apps
available.
I've seen companies replace X-Terminals with PCs. It ain't pretty.
The increased cost of maintaining the PC environment is staggering. If
Apple continues down their path, they will be able to replace the PC
and the X-Terminal economically. They must, however, be able to have
an X11 experience that is seamless with the other OS X apps. They must
also do it in a way that will minimize the required support. As much
as I don't like the "any color as long as it's black" attitude, if done
well, it can reduce the support costs.
randy.
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