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Re: copy and paste between X11 and native apps
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Re: copy and paste between X11 and native apps


  • Subject: Re: copy and paste between X11 and native apps
  • From: Rich Cook <email@hidden>
  • Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:52:43 -0700

Sorry to be obtuse, but how do I file a bug report with Apple again? Thank you.
I would be shocked actually if this wasn't yet filed, as it has been mentioned on this list numerous times.


On Oct 12, 2004, at 12:46 AM, John Davidorff Pell wrote:

You are quite right. XEmacs appears to hijack the X CLIPBOARD. Actually, it appears that X11.app screws clipboard handling in general, with respect to -c after explicit set of X CLIPBOARD. Its understandable how this can get messed up, the whole PRIMARY/SECONDARY/CLIPBOARD issue is ugly and confusing.

I've never run into this problem, but now that you've pointed it out I'm wondering how I've overlooked it... Basically, any (XEmacs, GNOME or KDE) explicit set of the X CLIPBOARD disables -c temporarily... That's Bad™

File a bug or feedback.

As I mentioned before, your best bet may be to use something like xcutsel or autocutsel (These both work inside X, to merge the PRIMARY and CLIPBOARD buffers) until Apple fixes this.

JP




On 11 Oct 2004, at 19:35, Rich Cook wrote:
Well, actually, the situation I exeperience is slightly different from what you describe. Actually, if xemacs has placed something into the clipboard, then the selection from an xterm never makes into the clipboard. Ever, ever, ever, no matter how many times I select and copy or how long I wait. X11 just ignores the selection for purposes of pasting into Aqua, and always, always, always pastes what I copied from xemacs, forever and ever. However, if I copy something in xeamacs then turn around and immediately select in an xterm and then option-click into xemacs, even xemacs recognizes it as the selection and pastes it in correctly! But Aqua does not. So Aqua may be in perfect synchrony with some weird clipboard thing but it does not act consistent with X11 applications, in that for X windows application, the current selection always trumps the xemacs selection, but as far as X11.app is concerned, xemacs' copy rules the universe!

Let me put it this way: why should what I have copied in xemacs override what I have selected in the xterm, when this is not the case for other X11 applications, including xemacs itself?

Example to illustrate:
Copy text from xemacs. Now make a selection in an xterm and type Command-C. Option-click in xemacs. What gets pasted in? Hmm, it's the xterm selection, not the xemacs selection! Ok, now paste in Aqua. What gets pasted in? Huh! It's what was copied from xemacs! Why are they different? This is what I'm talking about. Even xemacs knows to paste the current selection.


Also, it is not a matter of waiting for a few or many seconds. I have come back after playing volleyball for an hour and still had xemacs owning the selection, clipboard, or whatever the hell it is. It just "takes over." The ONLY way to "fix things" is to copy something in Aqua, which "overrides" xemacs' death grip on the clipboard situation. Then selections in the xterm become the clipboard contents automatically, just as they normally do. It never takes any time at all for me to have the selection get "copied to the clipboard."

Another example will illustrate what I mean:
Copy text from xemacs. Now make a selection in an xterm and hit command-C. Now go to Aqua, and select and copy some text. Go back to the xterm. The selection is deselected. Hmm. Now select it again and type Command-C again. Do a command-V paste in Aqua. The selection is pasted! So copying in Aqua somehow "fixed" the X11.app's idea of what is more important. Before copying in Aqua, what I copied in xemacs always got pasted in Aqua. But after that, I could select in xterm and copy/paste to Aqua again.


'Splain that!  :-)

On Oct 11, 2004, at 7:15 PM, John Davidorff Pell wrote:

You are entirely correct, *neither* PRIMARY or SECONDARY are the clipboard. You'll notice the same behaviour you just described in any GTK or QT app, because the CLIPBOARD has nothing to do with current selection.

the Aqua clipboard is sync'd with the X clipboard perfectly. If you copy something in [X]Emacs (or any GTK/QT/"good" app) then it goes into the clipboard. This has nothing to do with selection. When you select something, it goes into PRIMARY (or SECONDARY). This has nothing to do with the clipboard.

This is obviously confusing, annoying, and ridiculous... but its build into X. It has nothing to do with Aqua at all, believe it or not. (The fact that Aqua and X share the CLIPBOARD makes it confusing, though.)

When you do -C, or select Copy form the Edit menu, X11.app takes whatever is in the PRIMARY buffer, and copies it into the CLIPBOARD. This takes a few seconds (for no good reason) and is the problem that you are seeing.

There are several ways to sync the CLIPBOARD and PRIMARY if that is what you want. there is xcutsel, which gives you convenient buttons for copying CLIPBOARD-to-PRIMARY or PRIMARY-to-CLIPBOARD. This, again, has nothing to do with Aqua, but X's numerous clipboard-like-buffers. You can also try, autocutsel, which tries to do this automatically (and works quite well, actually), but it sometimes messes things up when you explicitly copy something, then select something, and try to get back what you copied... its gone, replaced by what you selected.

If anything is not clear, I'm happy to elaborate. :-)

As you say, what "seems" to be the clipboard in X is not what Aqua view as the clipboard: What seems to be the clipboard in X is not what X views as the clipboard either. If you don't like it, then take it up with the X people... :-(

JP

On 11 Oct 2004, at 18:16, Rich Cook wrote:

Howdie,
What I mean is, that if I use xemacs and copy some text from xemacs, then make a selection in an xterm window, then try to paste into Aqua, the text I copied from xemacs shows up, not the text I selected in the xterm. However, if I option-click in the xterm instead of pasting into Aqua, the text I selected gets pasted, not the text from xemacs.
I honestly don't know PRIMARY from SECONDARY, but what seems to be the "clipboard" in X11 is not what Aqua views as the "clipboard."




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  • Follow-Ups:
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References: 
 >copy and paste between X11 and native apps (From: Young Hyun <email@hidden>)
 >Re: copy and paste between X11 and native apps (From: John Davidorff Pell <email@hidden>)
 >Re: copy and paste between X11 and native apps (From: Ronald Cohen <email@hidden>)
 >Re: copy and paste between X11 and native apps (From: Rich Cook <email@hidden>)
 >Re: copy and paste between X11 and native apps (From: John Davidorff Pell <email@hidden>)
 >Re: copy and paste between X11 and native apps (From: John Davidorff Pell <email@hidden>)
 >Re: copy and paste between X11 and native apps (From: John Davidorff Pell <email@hidden>)

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