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Re: Apple X11 and CodeTek VirtualDesktop
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Re: Apple X11 and CodeTek VirtualDesktop


  • Subject: Re: Apple X11 and CodeTek VirtualDesktop
  • From: Gary Tate <email@hidden>
  • Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:07:51 -0800

Taking you advice I have dedicated on workspace for X11 and I run the gnome environment. I can then use this to have another 4 X11 workspaces. Using the options you have indicate this is workable, if limiting, for now.

Thanks for help and good luck with the fixes.
Gary

Matthew Klahn wrote:
Hi, Gary.

It would appear that the following things do not work in CodeTek VirtualDesktop in regards to Apple X11. (We're communicating with Apple developers at this point, but it's all just preliminary data sharing and we haven't come up with any solutions at this point.)

1) Window titles do not show up in the menu bar title
2) Window activation through CTVD doesn't work, which makes Focus-Follows-Mouse, Menu Bar Tool and pager activation of windows non-functional
3) Hiding/Showing of windows is not being recognized by X11, which means that a window that completely 'overlaps' another window on a different desktop will block input of that window, causing problems. This is exacerbated by the inability of CTVD to raise a window through the pager or menu bar tool. Because we can't do either, full screen X11 windows are problematic, to say the least.


Therefore, until we can get these issues resolved, I would recommend one of two things:

1) Assign X11 windows to a particular desktop, turn on the "Unminimized or Unhidden Windows are Restored on their Original Desktops" option, and use the "Automatically Switch to the Desktop of the Topmost Window" to take you to X11 when you use the Dock or alt-tab to switch applications. This _is_ limiting, but is going to give you the most compatibility, in that you will be able to work on all your X11 apps with little or no problems since it limits the amount of reliance you have on CTVD.

2) Don't assign X11 windows to any desktop, and disable the "Do Not Switch Desktops if a Window...Topmost Window" feature so that you can switch to the X11 window you wish to switch to through the Dock menu for X11. Basically, none of the other features will work very well, so you can't rely on them. But, if you have it so that you switch to the desktop of the X11 window you select from X11's Dock menu, you can safely have windows on various desktops without the overlapping window problem being a real problem. :) That is, because when you select the window through the X11 Dock menu, it will raise the window you've just selected, and the new window will be above any of the other windows _at its window level_. Of course if you have a full-screen window that floats above all the other ones, it will still block input even if its on another desktop.

These recommendations are not very happy ones, I'm sorry to say. They are very limiting and disrupt workflow, rather than increasing efficiency which is the aim of both CodeTek VirtualDesktop and Apple X11. However, we're working with Apple and trying to get ideas from anyone who has them (thanks, Sean Ahern!) to get these applications to play nicely together. I hope that we can do this to everyone's benefit soon.

Thanks for your question, and I hope that this helps at least a little.

Matthew Klahn
Software Architect, CodeTek Studios, Inc.

On Thursday, Feb 13, 2003, at 18:59 America/Chicago, Gary Tate wrote:

Mathew et al,

I have just got The CodeTek Virtual desktop and have been trying to figure out a set of default settings that will work well while running MAC OS X11.

I have seen numerous mails, each seeming to suggest a different settings.

Would any one have a definitive list of what is the best defaults are, given the present problems that are seen.

Gary

Matthew Klahn wrote:

Hi, everyone. Sorry that I haven't been able to respond to these questions for a couple of days; we were preparing an update for DockExtender that was taking all my time.
Aamer, your question is a very good one. We are researching this to see if we can identify what X11 application a particular Apple X11 window belongs to; that is, when you run Apple X11, we see only the Carbon/Cocoa window that is owned by Apple X11 and NOT the X11R6 application that is the actual owner. While I do notice that the title of each window seems to be the name of the application (i.e. "xterm"), these titles can change as each application sees fit and aren't reliable enough for us to use. Therefore, we'll have to see what we can do to get information out of the X Server by the Window ID or some other bit of information so that we can assign the X11 application to a proper Desktop.
Also, the problem that everyone is encountering with the overlapping windows not working in terms of getting the proper focus is most likely due to a problem when we 'hide' the windows. I'll be contacting Haroon directly so that I can tell him how we can fix the problem. Hopefully it can be incorporated in a future update, maybe with some help from Adrian Umpleby who has already corrected that problem in OroborOSX.
Thanks, everyone for your feedback. We'll see about assigning X11 applications to particular desktops and if anyone has any ideas/suggestions on how to retrieve the application name, I'd be happy to hear them! :)
Thanks,
--
Matthew S. Klahn
Software Architect, CodeTek Studios, Inc.
On Tuesday, Feb 11, 2003, at 15:20 America/Chicago, Aamer Akhter wrote:


I agree. Thank-you to both Apple and Codetek for X11 and virtual desktop. I
use both all day, and it would be hard to get work done with them.


I do have have one request though, and I'm not sure if anything can be done
about it. Virtualdesktop has a feature where you can assign applications to
stay in specific desktops. Ie vnc sessions stay in desktop 3 etc.


This doesn't seem to work with applications that are running under X11. For
example if I run vncviewer it will stay in which ever desktop that launched
it, and will not be moved to the vnc desktop. I think this is because
virtualdesktop thinks that the windows is just another X11 application
window and leaves it alone.


Anyway, great job on 0.2!


-- Aamer Akhter / email@hidden NSITE - cisco Systems

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--
Matthew S. Klahn
Software Architect, CodeTek Studios, Inc.
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References: 
 >Re: Apple X11 and CodeTek VirtualDesktop (From: Matthew Klahn <email@hidden>)

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