RE: Testing iPhone applications
RE: Testing iPhone applications
- Subject: RE: Testing iPhone applications
- From: "Chris Meredith" <email@hidden>
- Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 12:28:06 -0800
Bryan,
I seem to remember that the user interface guidelines left me feeling like I
could, in fact, develop a UI (and leave the graphics to graphic designers)
if I had something that even remotely approached what I had back in the
"good old days" of Visual C++ 6.0. But yeah--what I tended to end up doing
is memorizing where each button, or edit box, or label, ended (not to
mention cracking open the interfaces of all of Microsoft's sample apps to
see how they positioned things) and go from there. This may be easy enough
to do on the Mac side with some open source apps--as, looking at a few that
I'd downloaded for iPhone, I almost got to the point where I could read, if
not write, the raw XML that is the XIB format.
-----Original Message-----
From: accessibility-dev-bounces+tallin32=email@hidden
[mailto:accessibility-dev-bounces+tallin32=email@hidden] On
Behalf Of Bryan Smart
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 11:50 AM
To: email@hidden
Subject: RE: Testing iPhone applications
Chris, you're correct that you can get some controls to auto-size their
dimensions so that the object's size will accommodate the title/label, but I
think that you still need to know the dimensions of the object in order to
figure out the position of adjacent objects. For example, if you had a row
of buttons, you'd want the size of the white space between each button to be
equal, even though one button is labeled "OK", and the other is labeled
"Preferences...".
I'm not sure how the interface-by-code people work this out. I suspect that
another styling method is to simply place controls at regular margins. So,
if the width of the window is 600, we might place buttons starting with left
x edges of 100, 200, 300, 400, etc. That way, the white space isn't equal,
but the left edges are. A sighted guy suggested this to me when I was going
through this process for the VB6 designer, though others didn't like the
look. I'm fairly sure that there is an official guideline for this, though.
I need to read all of the way through the User Interface Guidelines. I think
they specifically define rules for object placement. Its just so difficult,
because I keep finding things that I want to read about in the Cocoa
references.
Bryan
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Meredith [mailto:email@hidden]
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 2:19 PM
To: 'Alexander von Below'; Bryan Smart
Cc: email@hidden
Subject: RE: Testing iPhone applications
As far as getting the control to the correct size, at least with things such
as labels, is there not an auto-size checkbox in the Size Inspector?
Also, I noticed nine unlabeled (at least for accessibility) radio buttons.
Anyone know what those are? I can provide more information when I'm
actually not in the office, as the Mac I have now is at home.
-----Original Message-----
From: accessibility-dev-bounces+tallin32=email@hidden
[mailto:accessibility-dev-bounces+tallin32=email@hidden] On
Behalf Of Alexander von Below
Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 10:41 AM
To: Bryan Smart
Cc: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Testing iPhone applications
Brian, as to your question of a learning path for non-xib Based development,
I was wondering the same. I am an instructor for the Big Nerd Ranch, and we
teach people how to programmatically design their interface -- but only
after a few exercises using Interface Builder.
Not that I have too much time on my hands, but I would be willing to
cooperate with someone on an audio podcast on the topic "Developing with
VoiceOver", possibly.
As to the layout, I think I have to confirm your worst fears: I know of no
other way than "just use numbers that seem right, run the program, visually
evaluate, and readjust as needed." Sorry
Alex
Am 09.02.2010 um 18:15 schrieb Bryan Smart:
> Alex, do you know of any learning paths for learning to work this way?
> All
of the newbie Cocoa paths that I've seen assume Interface Builder.
>
> I'd be fine with programmatically creating interfaces, though the main
problem that I imagine I'd encounter is how I would easily determine correct
coordinates and dimensions of my controls.
>
> When I'd design interfaces on Windows, I'd take advantage of a
> Winforms UI
construct called a layout panel. The layout panels would allow me to divide
the window in to a grid with invisible lines, and controls could be centered
in each cell, similarly to how HTML layout can be achieved with tables. A
simplified example of how a split view with a file list on the left and a
column of buttons on the right might be organized like:
>
> <row 1>
> <column 1>
> file list object, auto-sized to fill the cell
> </column 1>
> <column 2>
> <row 1>save button</row1>
> <row 2>cancel button</row 2>
> <row 3>help button</row 3>
> </column2>
> </row 1>
>
> Of course, like in HTML, the columns can be sized to a percentage of
> the
window's width and height.
>
> Is there some sort of similar layout tool in Cocoa that can be used?
> If
not, then what system do you use for programmatically positioning and sizing
controls? I'm really hoping that you don't need to just use numbers that
seem right, run the program, visually evaluate, and readjust as needed.
>
> Bryan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> accessibility-dev-bounces+bryansmart=email@hidden
> [mailto:accessibility-dev-bounces+bryansmart=email@hidden
> e.com] On Behalf Of Alexander von Below
> Sent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 11:02 AM
> To: E.J. Zufelt
> Cc: email@hidden
> Subject: Re: Testing iPhone applications
>
> Hello Everett,
>
> a lot of professional, non-blind developers (I, for one) don't like to
> use
interface builder for various reasons.
>
> I can assure you that you can develop any imaginable iPhone
> application
without using Interface Builder.
>
> Alex
>
>
> Am 09.02.2010 um 16:56 schrieb E.J. Zufelt:
>
>> however it's Interface Builder that appears to be the biggest challenge.
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