[meta] Aussie copyright issues (was Re: Where is the Searchable Applescript-users Archive?
[meta] Aussie copyright issues (was Re: Where is the Searchable Applescript-users Archive?
- Subject: [meta] Aussie copyright issues (was Re: Where is the Searchable Applescript-users Archive?
- From: Chuq Von Rospach <email@hidden>
- Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 09:48:29 -0800
(list mom note: Since we seem to be discussing meta issues -- and since IMHO
they seem to need some discussion -- I'm going to at the very least try to
flag them so that those on the list who want to avoid them have an easier
chance to do so. And I want to encourage everyone to make sure that when the
topic veers, that the subject line veers with it....)
On 3/5/01 1:49 PM, "kim" <email@hidden> wrote:
>
FWIW, in Australia on Monday a law came into effect that makes it illegal
>
to forward an email message to another person unless the author has given
>
consent to do so. This could well include dispersion through mailing
>
lists unless the subscription form for the mailing list can circumvent
>
this with a carefully worded agreement.
First, the easy part: If you sign up for a mailing list and post to it,
you've given implicit consent for that mailing list to redistribute that
message to the subscribers of the list.
Meta-meta digression: For a while, there was a trend among some of the
harder-core mac types to put a copyright notice on messages refusing
permission to distribute messages to microsoft. They generally got upset
when I contacted them to tell them they had to either remove the copyright
message or I'd block them from my mail lists -- because that was the only
way I could enforce their copyrights. Most understood once we talked over
the issues, a few got, well, non-team-building. But from the point of view
of the list-manager, they were requiring me to enforce a copyright, and the
only ways I could do it were to ban a set of domains from subscribing, or
refuse to accept the messages in the first place.
Second, the less-easy part: it's a lot LESS clear if, say, I see a message
on applescript-users and forward it to mpw-dev, because the original owner
hasn't given permission for that message to be posted to the other mail
list, even if he gave permission to post on the first -- that permission is
not 'sticky', in that just because the permission is granted once, it's not
granted beyond that. On the other hand, I've always felt that was how it
ought to work, and (not that I do this ALL the time; I do do it most of the
time) it's always a good idea to ask before passing stuff forward, anyway.
So they're codifying what is good manners, IMHO.
Second, the not-so-easy part: I think the Australian law is well-meaning but
there are huge jurisidiction problems, like there are on most of the
internet issues. If an australian user posts a message to one of my lists
here in Cupertino, and I forward a copy of it to someone in japan -- is that
illegal? The australian user might think so, since the message originated in
Australia. But the piece of email resided in California, and was sent to
Japan. What's the jurisidction here? I've never BEEN to Australia (but I
want to go, and take my telescope), much less accepted their legal system as
my own. The action never crossed an Australian system once the e-mail hit my
server. And even if they have jurisidiction -- where's the enforcement? This
law's going to create a lot of chaos and yelling and misunderstanding before
it's all hashed out, but frankly, only applies for Australian to Australian
email -- and everything else is AT BEST ambiguous. It's as if the United
States passed a law outlawing racism in South Africa. We all support the
concept (one would hope), but -- does it really accomplish anything useful?
And to take this even further, what if the original user was on a .au
address, but on vacation in new zealand? Who's jurisdiction exists then?
>
Copyright and the internet is going to be a _big_ issue in the future and
>
it will have far reaching consequences...
Oh, it's been a huge issue for a long time. It's simply going to get worse,
because the Internet is a beast that simply won't allow the traditional
structures to work -- look at the above, and you see why basic governmental
concepts have to be rethought.
Ya know, we really shouldn't be arguing this on applescript-users. Are
people possibly interested in moving this discussion? If so, I have a place
(over on www.chuqui.com) we can set up to hold it (it's one reason I *did*
www.chuqui.com...) meta flags or not, we really shouldn't take this too far
on this list, but I hate just saying "off topic, shut up" because there are
serious issues going on.
--
Chuq Von Rospach, Apple Mail List Gnome
(
mailto:email@hidden) + (
mailto:email@hidden)