Re: Nice Automator article on O'Reilly
Re: Nice Automator article on O'Reilly
- Subject: Re: Nice Automator article on O'Reilly
- From: "John C. Welch" <email@hidden>
- Date: Fri, 06 May 2005 09:21:00 -0500
On 5/6/05 08:11, "has" <email@hidden> wrote:
> However, Perl is a true hacker's language at heart - and that means that for
> every developer who loves it there's at least one other who absolutely can't
> stand it. Say what you like about VB as a language, but as a means of putting
> developer bums on Windows seats it's been a phenomenal success. It's this
> pragmatic magnetism that Apple needs to replicate on OS X, and for all its
> many virtues Perl simply isn't "middle-of-the-road" enough to be a good
> "officially approved" VB-equivalent platform.
VB however, is NOT an end user language. You'll find that most of the true
"end users" creating VBA solutions are hitting the "record" button in
Word/Excel/etc., and saving that. (It's a bloody mess too. You ever try to
fix a huge Excel Macro trying to make Excel be Access or FileMaker? It
SUCKS)
The idea that you can create a language that will perfectly satisfy both
programmers and non-programmers is a chimera.
No, that's not right, it's fantasy. Those are two groups with intrinsically
different needs, viewpoints, and ways of approaching a problem.
Python, Perl, PHP are all wonderful lanaguages, but they have very
"threatening" syntax, particularly Perl. By "threatening" I mean in the
sense of "a non-technical user is going to instinctively recoil in horror
from it:. This fact is not up for debate, I can see it happen a dozen times
a day if I so choose to drop Perl/Python/PHP syntax upon the unwary and say
"Learn this now".
AppleScript's syntax, while more clumsy and less efficient from a pure
programming point of view is also much FRIENDLIER. That comes with, like
every other syntax, advantages and disadvantages. I've seen secretaries jump
on to AppleScript. I'm not ever going to see that person be that fearless
with Perl or the rest. No, not even Python. And if I put Frontier code in
front of them, they'd stab me with a letter opener.
However, it's not good as a full-featured programming language. That doesn't
stop me from wanting it to do MORE, but there are limits to what that syntax
can do. There will ALWAYS be limits. However, unlike a lot of people, I
don't think this means you have to knife the AppleScript baby. It's a
non-threatening, reasonably capable language that is good for things like
IAC glue and basic programs.
It's not Perl, it's not Python, it's not PHP.
So what.
If all you care about is raw code efficiency, go learn assembly.
Every language does not have to be EVERYTHING to EVERYONE. It's stupid to
insist upon that. I worked in a scientific company for a long time, and
while the l33t k1dz may laugh at FORTRAN, for operations on HUGE arrays, a
good FORTRAN coder can be down in the tavern having a beer and waiting for
their run to finish while the C coder is still dealing with bounds -
checking. The finished C code may be faster in execution time, but when
looking at the whole process, it's going to lose.
On the other hand that same C coder will be able to just smoke the FORTRAN
coder in other things. Languages are just tools. Some are hammers, some are
Sawzalls (DROOL), some are Leathermen. They are not intrinsically "better"
or "worse" than each other just sitting in the tool box. It is the task that
defines their worth.
What I WOULD like to see, and has will agree with me here, is better OSA
support for <language>. In OS 9, there were reasons for
AppleScript/Hypertalk getting a better seat at the table, but not in OS X.
The thing I don't like is that it's not neutral. Provide the OSA plumbing
for all, and let the Python geeks use that, Perl, whatever. Hell, let them
use REXX for all I care. If you do that, then you remove limits on what you
can do with the OS and its programs, and that leads to "teh cool". It leads
to things you literally cannot imagine. It also leads to a thriving OS.
But AppleScript has probably lead more non-technical people into useful
programming on the Mac than any other language on this platform, and it's
still doing that. You can still get real work done in it. Just because it's
not Perl/Python/PHP/What-EVER doesn't make it a failure. It makes
it...AppleScript. That's worth keeping.
john
--
Love:
A temporary insanity curable by marriage.
Ambrose Bierce
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