RE: To shell or not to shell (was Re: URL Access Redux)
RE: To shell or not to shell (was Re: URL Access Redux)
- Subject: RE: To shell or not to shell (was Re: URL Access Redux)
- From: "Stockly, Ed" <email@hidden>
- Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 13:26:32 -0700
>>>Sure shell syntax is weird. SO'S APPLESCRIPT. So's every.other.programming.language.
My point is that this particular forum is a list for AppleScript, not every.other.programming.language. It's the AppleScript list and better or worse, a pervsion or emulation, this list is the place for AppleScript disussion.
>>> You're kvetching about hard to master commands? Oh please, tell how you mastered the full use of script objects and libraries in five minutes without any kind of reference, and I'll show you my new pet monkey. It flies, and it just came out of my butt.
How about if I tell you how an appleScripter can master scripting nearly any application that has a well-designed appleScript implementations in a matter of minutes (most applications with poorly designed implementations don't take that much longer).
My complaint isn't that shell scripts are hard to master. It's that an appleScript user with little or moderate experience would be frightened away if they came to this list for answers and saw the shell script syntax (gibberish to the untrained eye).
I've taught several appleScript classes and scripters I've referred to this list have told me that they thought the discussion was too advanced for them. I think that's a reaction to shell scripting.
>>>The idea that AppleScript is some bastion of self-documenting code is a myth that should be put down like a rabid dog. I guarantee you, it's just as arcane as shell. You just like it more.
Yes, yes, I do like it more, and, again, when an application has a well designed appleScript implementation, yes, it can be a bastion of self-documenting scripting. But again, that's not the point. The point is that this is the AppleScript list. I wouldn't go to a shell scripting list to get answers to AppleScript questions. And I wouldn't go to a shell scripting list and answer every question with a "here's how to do it better with appleScript" solution even though I much prefer appleScript. (But, if the best solution to a particular question was AppleScript, I would refer the user here.)
>>>>Please, there are things that shell just does better.
No disagreement there.
>>> If I'd had your attitude, I'd STILL be waiting for a way to script Antivirus scans and link the shell component of Virex to folder actions attached to the desktop. But instead, a flexible attitude gave me that ability *five years ago*.
No disagreement there either... although I'm not really waiting for those things, I don't believe I need them. If you truly had my attitude you'd be procrastinating over taking the Unix/Unix scripting class at the local community college. (A class like that makes sense for shell scripting, but it wouldn't make sense for AppleScript)
>>>>I'll take do shell script and network setup, and while you're locked into only running a script on logged in systems, I just scripted Apple Remote Desktop with some shell action, and set up 200 machines faster than you can set up one.
Hey, more power to you and Bravo for shell scripting. Seriously. I have nothing against shell scripting and have used it myself (even though I'm clearly in over my head when I do).
My point is that the AppleScript users list should support AppleScript users first and provide AppleScript solutions to AppleScript questions and also support new users. If a solution REQUIRES shell scripting beyond the simplest do shell script command, I think the user should be referred to the MacScripter list, which is not a dedicated appleScripting list, but a general Mac Scripting list, which includes appleScript and shell scripting.
ES
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