• Open Menu Close Menu
  • Apple
  • Shopping Bag
  • Apple
  • Mac
  • iPad
  • iPhone
  • Watch
  • TV
  • Music
  • Support
  • Search apple.com
  • Shopping Bag

Lists

Open Menu Close Menu
  • Terms and Conditions
  • Lists hosted on this site
  • Email the Postmaster
  • Tips for posting to public mailing lists
Cocoa downgrade from openstep?
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Cocoa downgrade from openstep?


  • Subject: Cocoa downgrade from openstep?
  • From: Eric Peyton <email@hidden>
  • Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 11:08:27 -0500

On Wednesday, August 8, 2001, at 10:45 AM, Erik M. Buck wrote:



I don't know how much you use Cocoa, but it is significantly downgraded from
Openstep 4.2 in many respects.

Wow - as a huge Cocoa advocate, I had not noticed this. (blinded by my own love for the platform? :-) ) Could you elucidate on which classes and what functionality has downgraded for you? I have found that Cocoa has improved substantially since the OpenStep days. The addition of things like NSTabView, NSDrawer, improvements to NSApplication, the addition of CoreFoundation, NSDocument* and NSWindowController, NSOpenGLView, all the new image support (via Quicktime), NSSpell*, NSToolbar, etc. seem like a little more than "some features".

(And to note, no additions to the Cocoa frameworks that I have seen fundamentally break code from the "good old days". I still have one application that I cross-compiled on Rhapsody Intel, and except for package changes I had to make still ran on OS X 10.0.x)

Apple has introduced huge performance
problems (perhaps due CoreFoundation) and lots of new bugs.

I doubt the CoreFoundation has added in any serious performance problems, but do you have some concrete numbers (samples? gprof data? etc.) that could help the Cocoa team track down why their stack has "significantly downgraded"?

If you have indeed filed performance issues with Apple, do you happen to remember what the radar numbers of those filings are?

(Most of CoreFoundation is open source, so actually identifying where and how these problems are creeping in, if in fact they are in CoreFoundation, would be wonderful.)

The largest performance hit I have noticed in Cocoa applications is the fact that all Cocoa applications are also Carbon applications and all Cocoa and Carbon frameworks (necessary) are loaded in. But this can be mitigated and is in actuality mostly startup application cost, not the kind of performance problems you claim below.

To be fair,
Apple has added some features, but of course none of the new features are
documented.

One reason that Apple may be reluctant to deliver the promised YellowBox for
NT is that Cocoa has new performance problems. Our high end animation
application runs at twice the frame rate on a 266 MHz Pentium II than on a
450 MHz G4 using substantially the same application code. It would be
embarrassing if applications ran twice as fast on machines that cost 1/4 as
much as Macs.

A high-end animation package is not necessarily the same as a standard "user application" but I would assume that if the problems you mention are truly in places like CoreFoundation, then all Cocoa apps would be experiencing the same kind of slow down. I am very interested in numbers if you have them.

Eric




----- Original Message -----
From: "Simson L. Garfinkel" <email@hidden>


I'm confused; we had an ObjC++ compiler back in 1993; why is it gone now?
_______________________________________________
cocoa-dev mailing list
email@hidden
http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/cocoa-dev


  • Follow-Ups:
    • Re: Cocoa downgrade from openstep?
      • From: Scott Anguish <email@hidden>
    • Re: Cocoa downgrade from openstep?
      • From: "Todd Heberlein" <email@hidden>
References: 
 >Re: It is time for me to take a decision. (From: "Erik M. Buck" <email@hidden>)

  • Prev by Date: Reading raw bytes
  • Next by Date: Connections
  • Previous by thread: Re: It is time for me to take a decision.
  • Next by thread: Re: Cocoa downgrade from openstep?
  • Index(es):
    • Date
    • Thread