• Open Menu Close Menu
  • Apple
  • Shopping Bag
  • Apple
  • Mac
  • iPad
  • iPhone
  • Watch
  • TV
  • Music
  • Support
  • Search apple.com
  • Shopping Bag

Lists

Open Menu Close Menu
  • Terms and Conditions
  • Lists hosted on this site
  • Email the Postmaster
  • Tips for posting to public mailing lists
Cocoa/EOF for non-enterprise apps Re: proof of cocoa superiority?
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Cocoa/EOF for non-enterprise apps Re: proof of cocoa superiority?


  • Subject: Cocoa/EOF for non-enterprise apps Re: proof of cocoa superiority?
  • From: Bill Bumgarner <email@hidden>
  • Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:59:39 -0400

If your toolbox contains nothing but a hammer...
.... all the problems look like nails.

I'm certainly not going to make any kind of a claim that EOF isn't anything but the best tool in the world for building 2 tier and 3 tier applications that use a relational-- or, at least, fixed structure tables-- as a backing store. It is. It kicks major butt. Any developer who still thinks it is necessary to write SQL by hand as a normal part of n-tier app development is wwwaaayyy behind the times....

However, that does not mean EOF is an appropriate solution for every app out there. Specifically, for applications targeted at the consumer market, it very likely is not appropriate to use EOF as a solution for persistency. I.e. EOF is not a good replacement for the traditional multi-document UI that a product like, say, OmniGraffle, GraphicConverter, or Create. Nor it is appropriate to apps that are seemingly database centric like, say, iTunes or the Finder.

Apple is aware that some kind of a generic persistency solution completely different from EOF needs to be provided to the developer. Ernie P. repeated this point at several sessions at WWDC.

EOF isn't really appropriate to environments where one is trying to persist a directed graph of objects where both the graph's connectivity and the object contents need to be relatively flexible. The whole notion of having a Model that provides a formal mapping between a flat table of fixed structure and a flat object is counter to the persistency problem faced by most developers targeting typically standalone applications. Furthermore, the notion of relationship as defined by EO-- that of a relationship of a fixed type with a fixed destination-- does not map to the typically much more malleable object graph produced by desktop applications.

Certainly, there is a tremendous amount of value within and knowledge to be gained from the feature set of EOF, but that does not make it a good tool to solve the generic desktop persistency problem.

b.bum

BTW: Stating that the "power of EOF for desktop apps" is not currently available is inaccurate. Have you actually tried working with the pure Java EOF in WO 5.x targeted to building Cocoa applications? It works fine. There are some rough edges at the adaptor level, but they are no worse than the rough edges in the native adators and it is extremely refreshing to be able to pop off to Sybase's or Oracle's web site, grab the latest and greatest JDBC adaptors, and have them *just work*.

Obviously, a remaining issue is one of licensing and it will be interesting to see how Apple addresses that issue. Let's hope it is handled with a bit more finesse than some of the licensing events in past history....

On Tuesday, June 12, 2001, at 05:47 AM, cocoa-dev-
email@hidden wrote:

I'm not going to cry over DP, since I never developed on NeXT, and Phone
Kit doesn't sound like anything I'll miss, but whose bright idea over
there
in Cupertino was it to remove EOF from Cocoa and make it only a
WebObjects
thing? It's like Apple doesn't WANT to be involed in the Enterprise
application space, which is really a shame. <sigh>. The things I could
do
with Cocoa an EOF...

Jeff, try telling it to email@hidden. The more customers say so, the
better the chances of us someday regaining the power of EOF for desktop
apps.


  • Follow-Ups:
    • Re: Cocoa/EOF for non-enterprise apps Re: proof of cocoa superiority?
      • From: Bill Bumgarner <email@hidden>
    • Re: Cocoa/EOF for non-enterprise apps Re: proof of cocoa superiority?
      • From: Nat! <email@hidden>
    • Re: Cocoa/EOF for non-enterprise apps Re: proof of cocoa superiority?
      • From: Deirdre Saoirse Moen <email@hidden>
    • Re: Cocoa/EOF for non-enterprise apps Re: proof of cocoa superiority?
      • From: "e.sammer" <email@hidden>
    • Re: Cocoa/EOF for non-enterprise apps Re: proof of cocoa superiority?
      • From: Brian Hill <email@hidden>
  • Prev by Date: Re: 2 questions-(drawer)
  • Next by Date: Re: Detecting Keydowns
  • Previous by thread: Re: 2 questions-(drawer)
  • Next by thread: Re: Cocoa/EOF for non-enterprise apps Re: proof of cocoa superiority?
  • Index(es):
    • Date
    • Thread