Re: EOF (was Re: Cocoa CGI)
Re: EOF (was Re: Cocoa CGI)
- Subject: Re: EOF (was Re: Cocoa CGI)
- From: Deirdre Saoirse Moen <email@hidden>
- Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 14:42:10 -0700
What Brian said. He has so clearly expressed my GAR on the matter.
Apple has finally come to understand that games are important for a
good chunk of the consumer market.
They did show a Partial Clue (tm) when they realized that WebObjects
needed data modeling. However, the clue they missed is that the
miniscule market share they enjoy in business is precisely because
there haven't been really good RAD tools for database and data
handling.
They missed the majority of the clue by not making EO more broadly
available and by eviscerating it.
If Apple seriously has the goal (as they said with the Apple Store
release) of doubling market share, they could do it pretty much alone
by promoting EO modeler. Heck, they could sell the EO frameworks for
$300/developer and people would pay in droves. As long as you don't
also force them to code in Java.
And for those who like Java, they'll soon learn how fun Objective-C
is. And then they'll code in Obj-C for the platform that supports it.
More apps, more sales.
On Friday, May 18, 2001, at 12:29 AM, mmalcolm crawford wrote:
And I haven't even mentioned the EOInterface framework yet... if
it's not too cruel to ask, perhaps Brian might explain the loss
he's feeling at the moment?
I'm the 'computer guy' at a small/medium sized business. On MacOS
8/9, I used a lot of different '4GL' database tools, FileMaker,
4thDimension, HyperCard, Visual FoxPro, even looked at Omnis.
I've been in that space. Heck, I hacked MacLion (if anyone else
remembers back that far) to call toolbox calls so I could have some
decent windows. :)
Invariably, I'd end up running into a wall that ALL 4GL tools lead
to -- the famous, "While 4GL tools make easy tasks easier, they make
difficult task impossible." In other words, if what you wanted to do
didn't fit the 4GL designer's idea of how things should work, you
were usually stuck.
It's the same box that Java development has, but the Java box is bigger.
On the other hand, I'd also written several PowerPlant C++ Mac
database apps to connect to database servers (like ButlerSQL or
PrimeBase), and while I had complete freedom to implement things as
I wished, I had to do everything myself. Lots and lots of embedded,
brittle SQL statements. Changing or renaming a column in the
database would require about the same amount of advance planning as
the WWII invasion of Normandy.
Well, by comparison certainly. What did I do a significant amount of
at TiVo? Database work. I did everything (from sysadminning 150k
Linux boxes to development for a future software release), but I
tried to
Nothing else on the planet touches EOF/Cocoa for writing database
client apps -- nothing. Not Visual Basic, not PowerBuilder, not
FoxPro. Not even close.
I completely agree.
Even better, since EOF abstracts the database 'model' from the GUI,
I could also use the same model objects and 'business logic' in a
web program. GUI clients for the data-entry intensive tasks, Web
interfaces for the rest of them, all from the same codebase.
Unfortunately, this option evaporated between last January and the
release of WO 4.5.1 for MacOS X last month. EOF/Cocoa is quite
broken on OSX, you can't create EOF interfaces in Interface Builder,
and there doesn't appear to be any sign (at the moment) of it
getting fixed at some point. It appears that it was meant to work
(we were told it would work), but it doesn't.
It needs to work.
I'm not going to whine about this too much on this list, to keep
from angering the list-moms, but suffice it to say that the loss of
EOF/Cocoa GUI apps won't probably even be appreciated by most Mac
developers until they decide to start writing those little database
client apps that all businesses (large or small) seem to need. Even
graphic design shops need accounting and billing systems, right?
Apple is too focused on killer apps (as in iTunes) to realize that
they have one real killer app: EOF. iTunes isn't going to sell
anywhere near as many Macs as EOF + Objective-C = Cocoa apps support
continuing would.
Not to mention what would have been possible if EOF had been
included as part of the OS, like on OSX Server 1.x. Think of a cross
between HyperCard/RealBasic/FileMaker all backed up with a 'plug and
play' database backend that could scale from text files to Oracle.
Sound useful?
You're preaching to the choir right now. :)
Anyway, speaking as a former MacOS 8/9, now Mac OSX developer, I'd
just like all of the other MacOS 8/9 developers to be aware of
what's being lost with the disappearance of EOF/Cocoa. It was, quite
simply, the competitive advantage in writing small business software
of any kind.
Or midsize business or big business. Heck, it's market share in a bottle.
--
_Deirdre Stash-o-Matic:
http://weirdre.com http://deirdre.net
Macintosh Developer (seeking work): Will work for Cocoa
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