Re: Icon in window title
Re: Icon in window title
- Subject: Re: Icon in window title
- From: Max Horn <email@hidden>
- Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 19:55:49 +0200
> OK, but how can I set the icon when I have no direct file associated?
Then it's bad GUI design. Apple's GUI guidelines explicitly state
that icons in the window bar must be associated with document
files, and that's exactly what I as a user would expect.
First of, let me say that I am indeed a big friend of the HIG, and of
good UI, and I am myself always glad to here good comments on UI
flaws and how to fix them.
But I must say that it is a big mistake to believe the HIG is a bible
that must always and in any case be followed. It contains rules that
are correct and should be followed in 98% of all cases, but that
still leaves 98% where it should, with full knowledge, be ignored,
for the sake of usability. For me the HIG is not a religion; I do not
follow it because I am a "beliver", I usually follow it because it is
a trove of well-thought and good founded hints and instructions on
how to design a good, usable and consistent UI.
Let me add that Apple itself often breaks it rules; and while I do
not condemn breaking the rules where it is appropriate, I found that
Apple more often breaks their own rules with seemingly no gain, and
only disadvantages for the user (as it is the case in the QuickTime
Player UI, althought they mended some of the biggest mistakes, and
the same holds true for the OS X dock, IMHO).
Of course, this is no excuse behave bad ;) I am straying, sorry ;)
You say: "icons in the window bar must be associated with document
files, and that's exactly what I as a user would expect"
Well, I myself never *felt* this to be true. Can you prove it, have
they tested it usability labs, or is it an assumption? I myself was
very surprised when I found out one could drag the title/icon, as a
"proxy" for the icon. Of course I am a long time mac/computer user,
so this might explain that. And in any case I do think it is a very
nice innovation, and helpful, but IMHO it is not at all straight
forward to the novice user, and several people I introduced to using
MacOS (ppl with almost no computer experience before) were surprised
by it, too. Yes, it is a good feature. But no, I don not think it is
a *must* that the window title/icon has to be associated with a file.
As to using an icon in the window title - my windows are not at all
associated to files. But many users requested from me to add this
particular icon to the window title. Let me quickly explain what this
icon is good for: I work on a chat application. Users can be offline,
online; and when they are online, they can be available, away, long
away, busy etc. This state is represented in your buddy list by icons.
Now, when you have a chat/meassge window open, talking to some peer,
they want to quickly see the presence state of their peer. Currently,
I have an icon added for this in the windows content area. But people
complain, saying it would be a waste of space (while it itself is
only 20x20 pixels, I must reserve a full width row of the window
(i.e. 20 pixels height, full window width) for it.; if you doubt
this, I can show you the window layout, and you can tell me how to do
it otherwise, and I mean it!)
People then continue to ask: "why don't you put it in the window
title?". You see, the name of the chat peer is already there, and it
*must* be there, so ppl can see immediatly in the window menu which
window is for whom.
I think it is a very logical step to place the presence icon there,
too. This way, the user can see with one glance with whom they are
chatting there, and which state this person has.
Oh finally, I also would like to be able to make the title draggable,
just like file proxies can be dragged! People can drag buddies in my
app, doing many things - ordering them, sendinc contacts to other
buddies ("hey, talk to this guy"), adding contacts to the "To;" list
of outgoing messages, adding them to group chat invites etc.
So far, this is my oppinion, and those of several users. But of
course, only because I think so, and they, too, it is still not
necessarily a good design, and might even be very bad. I know that
even the best UI designers can make mistakes while designing their
UI, that's why it is good to have other peoples look at them, with a
fresh opinion.
Sorry for talking so much ;) Anyway, if you now good give me precise,
direct reasons why I should *not* do it like I intend(ed) to (and of
course I am glad for suggestion how to do it otherwise ;), I will be
eagerly listening. But I am not listening to things like "Mother
Apple says it should be done this way, Amen. And anyway, people don't
like it". This is pure believe, but for me, only facts count ;)
Usabiilty tests *are* facts, that is why HIG is mostly very good.
I hope this was not harsh or unfriendly, please bear with me as I am
not a native speaker and thus have some troubles expressing this in
the right tone. I am glad to get your input and do care about your
opinion, thanks.
And I also wonder, what if I want an icon, and the filename, but
not the full path, which setTitleWithRepresentedFilename: seems to
append forcefully :/
You know, one beautiful thing about Cocoa is that it makes it much
harder for developers to not stick to the guidelines, such making
for a more consistent user experience. ;-)
Hu? How is forcing the pathname appened bringing a better user
experience? I am quite happy with only the filename. And if you look,
TextEdit only display the filename, too. Maybe I expressed myself
badly here ;)
Thanx for your time,
I would give it away even happier were I not forced to read your
(and only your!) messages always twice in two mailing lists. :-
(( Please!
Well, if it annoys you (and others, i guess) so much, I will only
mail to the macosx-dev mailing list. cocoa-dev is (so far at least)
quite dead, and I think my chances are much better getting help on
the macosx-dev mailing list - esp. since there seems to be not much
advertising for the cocoa-dev mailing list, I only found out about it
by pure chance ;)
Thanks,
Max
P.S.: *after* writing this mail, i read yours again and found out
your are german like I ;) So we could have talked in our mother
tongue... ah well, this goes to the mailing list, too, anyway ;)
--
-----------------------------------------------
Max Horn
C++/ObjC/Java Developer
email: <
mailto:email@hidden>
phone: (+49) 6151-494890