Re: why Obj-C
Re: why Obj-C
- Subject: Re: why Obj-C
- From: Matthew Johnson <email@hidden>
- Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 15:23:55 +1000
"Erik M. Buck" wrote:
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From: "Matthew Johnson" <email@hidden>
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> Why did apple choose Obj-C over something people know and understand like
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C++? or even C.
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1) Because Openstep and its predecessor was written in Objective-C almost 15
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years ago. Cocoa is Openstep 5.0. Do you remember what C++ was like 15
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years ago. The "virtual" key word had just been introduced.
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That is something I was not aware of. And a excellent answer.
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2) Read the section on "Why Objective-C" in
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http://www.toodarkpark.org/computers/objc/objctoc.html
Thanks for the link.
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> Why are we forced to learn yet another syntax that is very alien to
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C++/Java. I absolutely love the interface builder its
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How many languages do you know ? I say the more the better.
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In order of learning (oldest to youngest):
FORTRAN,basic,Pascal,lisp,prolog,C++,C,X86 assembly,mc68000 assembly,Java
In order of preference:
C,C++,Java,FORTRAN,Pascal,basic,lisp,prolog,mc68000 assembly,X86 assembly
I disagree, The more languages I have under my belt the less expert I become in the lot. Maybe I am getting old and
feeble but I seem to of reached a limit in which if I learn something new I forget something old ;)
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You love Interface Builder but not Objective-C ? Why do you suppose tools
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like Interface Builder are not available for other platforms/languages ? It
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is Objective-C that makes it possible. To make it with C++, you would have
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to write an Objective-C like runtime in C++. Isn't it interesting that IB
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is almost 14 years old, and it has not changed much in that time ?
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I must confess that I am not a GUI programmer (the last time I did GUI work apart from motif was for windows 3.1). So I
am not a good judge of Interface design tools. i just like very much Interface builder. I was not aware it was 14 years
old.
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> just excellent. But then you have to write the meat of the program and its
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been not a very pleasent experience for a
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> newbie to mac but I experienced C/C++ dude.
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Are you that hung up on syntax or were you unable to grasp the dynamic
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nature of Objective-C ?
Yes.
Look syntax shouldn't be a issue. And its my own time constraint issues that is my major problem. I had a very small
oportunity to bring OSX development into our site and to impress the hard core UNIX programmers that I work with of how
easy it was going to be to write code for this sucker. They were blown away with how long it took me to build a GUI with
IB (about a hour and I had never picked up IB before (thanks apple)). But both them and I hated the syntax of Obj-C. And
two weeks later I am still battling with the syntax. I guess I expected it to be miraculously easy.
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> Writing for the Mac for the first time (I am a solaris programmer (C/C++))
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I thought I would try cocoa to write a one
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> off application for my company. Personally I have found this was a very
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large mistake. If I every have to write another
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To each his own. Cocoa is partly an aesthetic choice. Many people
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including me find Cocoa vastly more productive than alternatives.
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you'll have to prise my C compiler from my cold dead hands ;)
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> one off Mac application I think it will be in Carbon.
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> Can someone tell me what is it about Obj-C that makes the syntax for
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class's and methods have to look like it does? why
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> "[" instead of "(".
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1) Because Objective-C mixes Smalltalk and C
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2) Because Brad Cox liked []
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3) Because () is already overused and can be confused for a function call.
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Messages are very different from function calls.
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4) Because () is ambiguous in some cases even in C++
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for me the "["'s suck. my kingdom for a makeObjCLikeC preprocessor ;)
I wish they made methods look like C functions. Less smalltalk more C.
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> I will never understand the IT worlds obsession with reinventing the
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wheel.
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In this case, Objective-C and C++ are about the same age. Some would argue
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that Objective-C came first and C++ is the new guy considering that in the
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early days C++ was "C with classes" and did not support polymorphism
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(considered essential for an OO language). Furthermore Objective-C works
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like Smalltalk (the original OO language for which the term "Object
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Oriented" was coined.
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I didn't know they were about the same age.
C with Classes would of probably done fine.
C++ is now a monster and far from making life easier for developers it makes a damn mess.
Smalltalk is really dead.
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> I wish people would understand that the power of Java is not Java syntax
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but its the collection of Standard classes Sun
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> could of done the same thing with C/C++ or Perl or Pascal etc. Same with
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Obj-C.
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And Cocoa makes the Java standard libraries look like buggy slow toys in
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comparison and for some application domains. The main reason to use
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Objective-C is to be able to use Cocoa and to be able to use the language
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features that make Cocoa possible.
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Java is a buggy slow toy (duck) ok that was flame bait. But I don't like Java either. Its like C++ with all the good
bits taken out. pointers rock!!!
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> I think I might go have a lay down.
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If you ever understand Cocoa, I assure you that it will change your life.
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Even you future C++ code will look and work differently.
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I hope I will get the time to appreciate it the way you obviously do :)
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I recommend that you learn Lisp, Smalltalk, Eiffel, Perl, and at least one
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assembly language. Broaden your horizons. Then come back and look at C
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derived languages with a different admiration and sense of limitations.
No thanks. I have work to do.
All the languages I have learnt (see above) the most flexible/powerful I know is C. This is why Obj-C has been a bit of
a dissappointment for me. I didn't expect to have to learn the language as well the programming methodology/Classes.
Anyways I think I shall continue with Obj-C with less stress in my free time. Maybe I can give it a fairer more
considered chance.
Apologies for venting in public :)
Matt
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| References: | |
| | >why Obj-C (From: Matthew Johnson <email@hidden>) |
| | >Re: why Obj-C (From: "Erik M. Buck" <email@hidden>) |