Re: Objective-C Question
Re: Objective-C Question
- Subject: Re: Objective-C Question
- From: Scott Ellsworth <email@hidden>
- Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:56:46 -0700
On Monday, September 22, 2003, at 01:06 PM, The Amazing Llama wrote:
On Monday, September 22, 2003, at 11:25 AM, Steve Ehrenfried wrote:
All I can is UNBELIEVABLE! I asked some simple questions, not even
meaning it as a slam against the language and stating that I don't
yet know everything about Obj C, and I get attacked. There's an awful
lot of narrow mindedness, condescension and arrogance on this >> list...
You'll have to excuse us; some of us have been doing this defense
schtick for a while.
But you have to look at it from the other point of view, as well. Java
is not the be-all and end-all of OOP. C++ certainly isn't. A lot of
people use these languages, but I have heard very few people say they
actually enjoy working with them. You hear this about ObjC all the
time.
I actually enjoy working with Java. Were IB able to accept a dragged
Java file and pull actions/outlets from it, my joy would be complete.
Does this mean I think ObjC sucks? No - or I would not have spent a
big chunk of the last six months learning it and the Cocoa libs. I
certainly would not have spent Sunday at WWDC taking jcr's Cocoa class,
or trying to find a way to afford BNR's week long Cocoa class.
(The complaint about IB not accepting a dragged Java file is the key
Cocoa content here. the rest is to prevent 'you obviously do not
understand Cocoa' complaints.)
There are lots of reasons why someone would prefer Java, some good, and
some bad.
On the tool side, Eclipse and IDEA are key tools. IB rocks for
building interfaces, but for underlying code, a refactoring editor is
very, very useful in getting code out.
(Again, the Cocoa content is primarily a wish that I could use Eclipse
for Cocoa development in ObjC as well as in Java. Refactoring is a big
productivity win.)
From a language standpoint, garbage collection is a big win for me.
Others do not see the point, but I suspect we work in different spaces
with different solutions, typesafe collections via templates were a big
win in C++. I expect I will enjoy them in Java 1.5, but I am hardly
helpless now; I use generated source files for both ObjC and Java.
Steve: I suspect many of the people on the list who flame reflexively
whenever Java comes up have been forced to do Java development, and
thus have very specific reasons for their hostility - it is not lack of
understanding, but anger at wasted time. Todd was complaining about
that on java-dev in August. Having just finished a contract using
Access, I understand just how annoying working with what you consider
suboptimal tools to be.
Scott
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