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Re: [now OT] Licensing/Implementing in Cocoa/Obj-C - Interest in product?
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Re: [now OT] Licensing/Implementing in Cocoa/Obj-C - Interest in product?


  • Subject: Re: [now OT] Licensing/Implementing in Cocoa/Obj-C - Interest in product?
  • From: "Dennis C.De Mars" <email@hidden>
  • Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 20:20:42 -0700

On Apr 6, 2004, at 7:08 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote:

Well a dual licensing scenario doesn't make much sense. It's unheard of for something under the GPL (or similar) to require licensing. This is one of those give-it-away-or-don't situations.

Umm, that's not really an accurate statement. The original poster seems to suggest making parts of the product open-source but requiring a license for the entire product. I write this on a computer that runs on an OS using this concept (OS X).

Furthermore, the copyright holder can also do other things like grant a GPL license for people who want to use a product or incorporate it in GPL'd products, and a commercial license for those who want to want to incorporate it in commercial products. There are LOTS of GPL open-source applications out there that operate in this way. The original poster mentioned one: MySQL.

In this case, the guy could do exactly that if he wants to. He can make the source GPL for those who think it would be just dandy to see this as an open-source project, and charge people who want to use it in a commercial product. The open-source fans have no reason to kick because, after all, they can use it and modify it to their hearts content in all of their open source projects.

The only catch here is that this is one of the few projects I can think of that wouldn't make sense to GPL (regardless of whether a commercial version was available) because why use would any GPL project have for a licensing system? By definition only commercial software have use for such a thing. In fact, come to think of it I'm puzzled by the guy who said it would be a good Sourceforge project because either it would be GPL (therefore useless since only non-GPL software has a use for it) or it would be under some kind of BSD-style license that allows commercial re-use, but then what the guy was saying was "Wouldn't it be great if you gave your source code away...so I can use it in projects I'm going to charge for?"

Sorry if that sounds a little pugnacious. I'm actually all for open source but I don't think every developer that comes along with an idea to make a little money has to be exhorted to make their code open source.

To contribute a little to some of the other subjects mentioned in this thread, I was looking into some sort of public-key serial number scheme myself (as the scheme I currently use for my shareware products can be and has been easily cracked). I was disappointed to find out that the keys for conventional public-key cryptography are too long (if you want them to be secure) to allow generation of a serial number that could be entered by hand -- you'd have to go the file route. However, it looks to me like elliptic-curve cryptography can be secure with much shorter keys. Using this it might be possible to do serial numbers that are around 36 characters long. A bit on the longish side but still acceptable by my standards. However, implementation is far from trivial.

Actually, if I ever get around to implementing such a scheme it would probably be something I would be willing to make open source! (As I said above, a GPL wouldn't make much sense for something like this, so I'd make it a BSD-style license). However, it would just be for generating and checking the serial number, it wouldn't be a full blown licensing scheme. Something appropriate for small shareware developers who want a scheme that isn't totally trivial to crack but don't care about a totally unbreakable scheme -- people like me. For those who need the later, I'd look for a commercial solution.

- Dennis D.


Your best bet, IMHO, is probably to tightly couple it with a registration brokering house and arrange for them to give you a kickback when a software developer uses your toolkit (maybe even per registration), since your toolkit would essentially advertise their system. This makes the software developers happy, because they do not have to risk a large initial investment in your toolkit (since it is free, maybe "as in beer" or possibly "as in speech" as well), it makes the registration brokering house happy because they have more customers which means they make more money, and it makes you happy because you get paid :)

-bob

On Apr 6, 2004, at 8:52 PM, Stefan Pantke wrote:

Greg,

yes, might be.

But I work self employed. Thus, I earn my money directly
by my own work.

Although I like to give back stuff, I should have the money
component in focus - otherwise, I would die at starvation ;-)

Do you see some solution for this situation? Doing parts
as OpenSource and earning money as well?

Since such a project will certainly not be as big as
MySQL for example, the return in money might be quite
small.

Stefan

Am 07.04.2004 um 02:38 schrieb Greg Hulands:

Sounds like a sourceforge project to start!!

On 07/04/2004, at 9:20 AM, Stefan Pantke wrote:

How is the general interest in such a system?
We might pack a product and probably sell it.

Currently, this is what's it is doing:

- Generate public/private key pairs
- Generate a new serial number for each new license
- Enter client data and select license type (single/enterprise/..)
- LicenseBuilder as application
- license checker as library
- Interface code
- Handle several applications to be licensed
- Set RSA key size
- Sample project
- Create license files and digitally sing it (using LicenseBuilder)
- Verify license files (in client app)

- Probably Rendezvous based identification of other apps using
the same key

- All stuff is C/ObjC

What do you think?
What would you need?

Stefan

Am 07.04.2004 um 00:42 schrieb Shawn Erickson:

On Apr 6, 2004, at 3:11 PM, Stefan Pantke wrote:
But to my knowledge there isn't such advanced crackers on the Mac, is there? :) Although we did have a guy state he could break 128 bit AES in no time, but hopefully he will only use this power for good... ;)


AES in such a short time? Quite interesting! Shouldn't he
join NSA?

I think this is the guy he is talking about... <http://homepage.mac.com/shawnce/misc/aesattack/>

-Shawn
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  • Follow-Ups:
    • [OT] Elliptic-curve cryptography (was: Licensing/Implementing...)
      • From: Allan Odgaard <email@hidden>
References: 
 >[little OT] Licensing/Implementing in Cocoa/Obj-C (From: Matt Jaffa <email@hidden>)
 >Re: [little OT] Licensing/Implementing in Cocoa/Obj-C (From: Stefan Pantke <email@hidden>)
 >Re: [little OT] Licensing/Implementing in Cocoa/Obj-C (From: Allan Odgaard <email@hidden>)
 >Re: [little OT] Licensing/Implementing in Cocoa/Obj-C (From: Stefan Pantke <email@hidden>)
 >Re: [now OT] Licensing/Implementing in Cocoa/Obj-C (From: Shawn Erickson <email@hidden>)
 >Re: [now OT] Licensing/Implementing in Cocoa/Obj-C - Interest in product? (From: Stefan Pantke <email@hidden>)
 >Re: [now OT] Licensing/Implementing in Cocoa/Obj-C - Interest in product? (From: Stefan Pantke <email@hidden>)
 >Re: [now OT] Licensing/Implementing in Cocoa/Obj-C - Interest in product? (From: Bob Ippolito <email@hidden>)

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