Re: xcode-->java-->cocoa - how long? how many?
Re: xcode-->java-->cocoa - how long? how many?
- Subject: Re: xcode-->java-->cocoa - how long? how many?
- From: Jeff Pritchard <email@hidden>
- Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:58:51 -0700
Hi Ali,
Thanks for the honest answer. It seems that I made a poor choice due
to lack of information. Any chance you could document this in places
where a newcomer is likely to see it before making a choice?
And while we are on the subject, if Apple can switch from PowerPC to
Intel so seamlessly, why not switch to a programming language that is
a bit more "standard". I'm pretty sure nobody else in the world
writes objective C, or at least I've never heard of it in any context
other than NextStep code. It really irks me to keep having to
remember new syntaxes all the time. After four or five different
languages they all just kind of melt into one big blob in your brain
and you spend twenty minutes getting five minutes worth of coding to
compile. Thanks for letting me rant.
thanks,
jp
On Jun 14, 2005, at 1:30 PM, Ali Ozer wrote:
It has been an option for a long time, but we at Apple are seeing
very few people do Cocoa/Java apps.
Some possible reasons for this:
- Performance; at some point in the optimization of a Cocoa/Java
app, rewriting in Objective-C becomes the best way to achieve
additional performance gain
- Lack of complete coverage of Cocoa APIs in Java (all along it has
just been AppKit and Foundation, and those don't provide 100%
coverage either; Tiger has some great new Cocoa APIs which are not
available in Java)
- Developers who know Java also pick up Objective-C with no difficulty
Of course, lack of interest in Java APIs for Cocoa from the
developer community has in turn caused us to focus less on it,
since it does require additional resources (sometimes substantial)
to make it work. That's because in many cases the APIs are not
just automatically "wrapped," but are actually tweaked and
sometimes redesigned to be made available in ways which makes most
sense for Java.
In any case, I recommend that moving forward you do not develop new
applications in Cocoa/Java. Existing applications will continue to
work for the foreseeable future, but it's very likely that new
Cocoa APIs won't be available in Java.
Ali
Begin forwarded message:
From: Jeff Pritchard <email@hidden>
Date: June 14, 2005 12:56:23 PDT
To: email@hidden
Subject: xcode-->java-->cocoa - how long? how many?
I recently asked a question here and two great guys posted ObjC
answers, but...I clearly stated I was using java and yet nobody
chimed in with a java answer. Seems that there are substantial
differences in the interfaces between java and obfuscated C
(didn't expect that).
I was just wondering how long Java cocoa development has been an
option, and wondering if I'm an extreme minority at this point,
with very few developers using java for cocoa development yet. If
not many, is it just because it's new, or are there some
substantial downsides to using java for cocoa?
Is there anybody else out there?
thanks,
jp
Begin forwarded message:
From: Frédéric BLANC <email@hidden>
Date: June 14, 2005 12:04:36 PDT
To: Mike Butler <email@hidden>
Cc: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Cocoa-Java-based Universal Binary? Works.
Reply-To: Frédéric BLANC <email@hidden>
Hi Mike,
(…) it took me about 3 minutes or so to port my largish Cocoa-Java
app (…)
I may have been helped by the fact that I build the Java side using
Ant and the Objective C side using XCode (…)
OK. So you don't seem to build your Cocoa-Java in a "standard" way;
and your "trick" is kind of clever since it allows you to upgrade
your
targets as "Native" in Xcode. Thanks for sharing this! I don't know
for sure if I shouldn't go full Objective-C instead now, but it's
nice
to have choice… Because, as noted by Eric, I presume that dealing
with native targets is the final step I was missing to get my ticket
for some Universal Binary…
I wouldn't be surprised if there never is one, given the lack of
attention Cocoa-Java has been given in recent times.
I think it's probably better to wait before making such definitive
statements! :-)
I think it's probably better to clearly state what one should expect
when dealing with Cocoa-Java-based projects… Finding no information
about this topic on Apple's mailing lists sent me 2 potential
explanations: 1) It's really easy to build such an Universal Binary,
and I then miss an obvious thing; or… 2) No-one is using Cocoa-Java
nowadays (sigh) and I should "leave the boat" too :( !
So all I had to do was upgrade to using native targets, rebuild
and then run.
You lucky ;) !
Cheers,
--
— Frederic BLANC (email@hidden)
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