• Open Menu Close Menu
  • Apple
  • Shopping Bag
  • Apple
  • Mac
  • iPad
  • iPhone
  • Watch
  • TV
  • Music
  • Support
  • Search apple.com
  • Shopping Bag
 

Lists

Open Menu Close Menu
  • Terms and Conditions
  • Lists hosted on this site
  • Email the Postmaster
  • Tips for posting to public mailing lists
scanner profiling woes (WAS Minolta 5400...)
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

scanner profiling woes (WAS Minolta 5400...)


  • Subject: scanner profiling woes (WAS Minolta 5400...)
  • From: Armand Rosenberg <email@hidden>
  • Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 18:35:56 -0500

A couple of helpful individuals have provided info on their profiled scanner workflows, and I thank them. They have also helped me organize my thoughts on the topic. So I have a follow-up question that is hopefully of more general interest.

For scanning positive film, it seems the practice is to determine an appropriate exposure setting for the target and "lock" it for future scans. After scanning the target, one calculates a scanner profile. Then future scans are done by:

- scan with that "locked" exposure setting
- set the white and black points (*)
- assign scanner profile
- convert to working space

It's that second step (*) that bothers me. Since the target already contains the equivalent of a true shadow and a true highlight, why is it necessary to set wp and bp for each individual image? If the image has a correct exposure and the target is on the same type of film as the image, it seems the wp and bp should be the same for both target and image, even if the image contains a tonal distribution that differs from "average." (I'm not addressing any "improved" interpretations of the image here.)

This has been the cause of my concern: I find that I have to set wp and bp for each image, even when the image is properly exposed. Otherwise the scan is usually too dark (the histogram is compressed to the lower range). If I do this step (*), then profiling results are reasonable. But this step seems essential to the workflow, and it involves operator decisions on an individual image basis, which seems contrary to the ColorSync philosophy. Hence my dilemma.

And while I'm on the topic, does the order of steps 2 and 3 (above) matter? IE, should wp and bp be set before assigning the scanner profile or after (or does it not matter)?

I've read Ian Lyons' informative description of profiling. My impression after reading this article was that indeed wp and bp should not usually need to be set on an individual image basis in a profiled workflow. But his "yes" and "no" answer assumes that histogram settings in scanner software are applied during the scan, and this assumption appears from what I gather to be incorrect... If these settings are applied after the scan anyway, then there is no advantage in doing them inside the scanner driver (as long as a 16-bit file is saved).

And as far as I can tell, the wp and bp settings are always applied AFTER the scan. I think Ed Hamrick (VueScan's author) has also said this, and supposedly this is true of all scanner software (I know it's dangerous to over-generalize...) So it doesn't matter whether those settings are done in the scanner driver or later in PS, as long as there is a 16 bit data path up to that point. In fact, why isn't it advantageous to archive a file without these settings but with the scanner profile embedded? That way you can always go back and modify the wp and bp later, so you don't have to rely on your (possibly impaired...) judgment at the time of the scan... It seems like it's just a matter of convenience to apply these settings in the driver -- the results should be the same if you do a Levels adjustment in PS later. Is this true?

To summarize, I suppose I have 2 basic questions on this topic:
1) In a ColorSync profiled workflow, should it be necessary to set wp and bp for each image, or should that information be determined from the target once during profiling (and hence become part of the profile)?
2) Is there any advantage in adjusting the wp and bp in the scanner driver, or are those settings applied after the scan, in which case they could just as well be applied in PS (in a 16-bit file)?

I hope I haven't made some critical error in arriving at these questions (if I did, I would of course like to know what it is).

Any thoughts from the experts on this List?

Armand
_______________________________________________
colorsync-users mailing list | email@hidden
Help/Unsubscribe/Archives: http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.

  • Follow-Ups:
    • Re: scanner profiling woes (WAS Minolta 5400...)
      • From: Roger Breton <email@hidden>
  • Prev by Date: Re: Panther, sRGB, web browsers
  • Next by Date: Fuji Pictrography
  • Previous by thread: Re: aging profile?
  • Next by thread: Re: scanner profiling woes (WAS Minolta 5400...)
  • Index(es):
    • Date
    • Thread