Re: colorsync-users digest, Vol 3 #1047 - 1 msg
Re: colorsync-users digest, Vol 3 #1047 - 1 msg
- Subject: Re: colorsync-users digest, Vol 3 #1047 - 1 msg
- From: Jim Mitchell <email@hidden>
- Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:00:50 -0600
On 11/10/03 12:00 AM, "email@hidden"
<email@hidden> wrote:
>
Send colorsync-users mailing list submissions to
>
email@hidden
>
>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>
http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users
>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>
email@hidden
>
>
You can reach the person managing the list at
>
email@hidden
>
>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>
than "Re: Contents of colorsync-users digest..."
>
>
>
Today's Topics:
>
>
1. Re: Black Bodies and Suchlike Magical Stuff (Nick Wheeler)
>
>
--__--__--
>
>
Message: 1
>
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 13:37:26 -0500
>
Subject: Re: Black Bodies and Suchlike Magical Stuff
>
Cc: email@hidden, email@hidden
>
To: Andrew Rodney <email@hidden>
>
From: Nick Wheeler <email@hidden>
>
>
On Saturday, November 8, 2003, at 09:39 AM, Derrick Brown wrote:
>
>
> Id rather do than theorize here.
>
>
On Saturday, November 8, 2003, at 10:34 AM, Andrew Rodney wrote:
>
>
>
> That's the bottom line. The other question is how much time and work
>
> will
>
> the "average" photographer spend to get the color appearance in a file
>
> he/she wants? The debate among many photographers today in this regard
>
> is
>
> still "to shoot RAW or not to shoot RAW" which in itself splits up how
>
> to go
>
> about dealing with the color files. NOT all Photographers by a long
>
> shot are
>
> embracing RAW (mostly due to either education, a bad experience with a
>
> RAW
>
> converter or the workflow hit you get in a RAW workflow).
>
>
>
> And strive for better tools. We are getting there but have a way to go
>
> (especially with respect to building camera profiles IMHO).
>
>
>
>
>
>
Derrick, Andrew:
>
>
This is it precisely. Here we see a problem and we as early adopters of
>
the technology have to hack our way to a solution. We work at the
>
application level with the tools available. We may not be able to make
>
a hammer, but we have to use one every day. If we can't find a hammer
>
we use a brick and moan and groan loudly until finally someone comes up
>
with a hammer.
>
>
I am reminded of George Adam showing Mark Doyle and I his early Monaco
>
development (before Colorsync). George came over one day to show us the
>
latest iteration of his product. We would always end up wailing,
>
moaning and gnashing our teeth about why was Adobe using the monitor
>
color space as its working space and how that made no sense at all and
>
it sure wasn't the same as the Fujix or Scanner color space.
>
>
George would simply say: that's the way it is and we have to work with
>
it and shut up already. So we did the best we could. We worked with
>
that space and our reptilian minds finally developed little routines
>
that would get us into it from the scanner and out of it to the
>
printer, and it all worked after a fashion.
>
>
Obviously Mark and I were not alone, and lifting our heads out of the
>
primeval swamp we noticed folks a lot smarter than us were working on
>
the same problem. Along comes Colorsync, Live Picture and Colorblind,
>
tools change, consciousness grows and ultimately Adobe adopts a
>
flexible RGB workingspace architecture with paths in and out. Praise
>
the lord, and fast computers.
>
>
We are in a similar fix with the camera now, stuck between things as
>
they are and things as they could be. My initial post was simply to
>
remind the casual reader of this list that almost every post on the
>
subject of dealing with raw files has some validity and is worth
>
exploring. There is no one right way. There is a software architecture
>
in place that we have to understand and work with, there are a lot of
>
paths through that architecture.
>
>
As the more clever among us discover the better paths, that knowledge
>
will work its way back to the manufacturers and better tools will
>
evolve. Right now we're stuck with bricks. To argue that a red brick is
>
better than a brown one is to miss the point. Try them all.
>
>
My guess is that at some point in the future we will be able to
>
accurately describe or calibrate the behavior of a camera, or be
>
provided with such. Then we can custom tailor transformations from that
>
calibrated behavior into a known and user definable RGB working space.
>
The Phase One and Adobe products that I have seen are certainly a step
>
in the right direction.
>
>
One of the arguments has been how you go about figuring the behavior
>
thing out. I sure don't know, there's that little problem of the
>
scanner bulb constantly changing. Derrick is right, we can argue til
>
the cows come home about white balance and gray balance, it doesn't
>
mean diddly in the world. Try everything and see what works best. I
>
think by guess and by gosh for the moment. From the heated discussion
>
of this topic it should be obvious that no consensus currnetly exists.
>
>
The problem has been that the manufacturers want to provide us with
>
something like the film experience when we buy a digital camera and
>
they don't want to introduce any complexity into that experience. But
>
no one wants to be stuck with a narrow range of film choices when
>
buying a camera. They should know better, maybe there are acceptable
>
calibration standards.
>
>
Again, try to think of these batch conversions from raw to working
>
space as being something like film and filters. Sometimes you'll want
>
Velvia, sometimes EPN, sometimes the Gold 200 that comes with the
>
camera. The tools are available to get started on that project now.
>
They're a little blunt, like a brick.
>
>
Best wishes,
>
>
Nick
>
>
>
--__--__--
>
>
_______________________________________________
>
colorsync-users mailing list | email@hidden
>
Help/Unsubscribe/Archives:
>
http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users
>
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>
>
>
End of colorsync-users Digest
Thanks bud! Now I need to get motivated!
Love You Man!
jim
_______________________________________________
colorsync-users mailing list | email@hidden
Help/Unsubscribe/Archives:
http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.