Re: colorsync-users digest, Vol 3 #1391 - 16 msgs
Re: colorsync-users digest, Vol 3 #1391 - 16 msgs
- Subject: Re: colorsync-users digest, Vol 3 #1391 - 16 msgs
- From: mo <email@hidden>
- Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:04:07 -0400
- Organization: moing
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I have some questions about this concept.
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Prebinding would appear to assume an rgb workflow. This would rule out the
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following scenarios:
are you sure it would?
are you?
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Any publisher with a digital workflow using TIFF-IT, PDF/X-1a, 1-bit tiff or dcs files.
Tiff-it is a dying file format and will be gone in the near future. How near, not sure, but it's already starting to be phased out. I'm seeing this happen as of now. Publications are starting to want PDF-X1A. At least the ones I see. Tiff-it was a great idea to lock customers into bed with their prepress and print service providers. (aka
Scitex ) Anyone at this point requesting a Tiff-it file for output is trying to hold on to a lost cause.
Besides that. When a Scitex RIP goes down, the service is so bad due to long waiting periods and so expensive, that only a true fool would re-invest in a raw deal such as Scitex. They made their money, sold it to Creo and so shall it be an expense not worth paying for. In Design 3's Postscript can't even be RIPed with the latest build. It can
take PDF, but there are workflow limitations to that at times. Prepress is pretty much, still a mess from all ends of the rainbow.
PDF-X1A is the carrier of the final rendered file. It's still the same old thing. The binding happens at the "art creation application stage"
You have to remember that the output profile is not the separation of the file, but it can be. In a prebinding workflow, an assumed designated color space is chosen. Kind of like a CMYK working space, then a tweening "device link" profile does the cross render for a specific output.
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Any prepress shop that must run random color proofs to be used as contract
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proofs, and even if that prepress shop has an rgb workflow, they would have
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to have this tag or profile from every single printer and press and apply it
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accordingly, which would assume that the printer had an appropriate tag and
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workflow in order to conform.
It is assumed that the common "pre harmonized" color space.......IS.......SWOP standard.
This means that you'll print a SWOP standard separation to an unknown device. Just like what's happening as of now for the most part. If you tween the file for the specific output device, then you'll have a press match to proof. I don't know how many times I beat my head against the wall to try an repurpose files for two presses or press and
output with standing CMYK files. (long twisted story of never ending subjects)
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Any printer who doesn't want the responsibility of color conversion--and
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there are many--
then they will have a SWOP standard sep with the bind without the tween for repurposing.
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I think there are fewer morons in the industry than you might think. How
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would you address the above scenarios?
Take CMYK out of the hands of people who have no concept of the subject. This is spread across many fields.
Even the big Ad agencies are full of morons. WHY? Because they pretty much have fired all the technical people making big dollars due to competition over sees, leaving art director, project managers and designers with the daunting task of file creation and color reproduction. (most commercial ad work is farmed out to many publications for
prepress and printing)
If you'd like a comprehensive list of institutions that house these guest of honor, I'd be happy to show you the light.
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>A prebound file is an RGB file that never sees CMYK until the file is
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>rendered to said CMYK output space.
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In my world, this is any rgb file I have to proof and send out to a printer.
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Part of the big problem of the current RGB workflow is the control of black only objects after a RGB to CMYK conversion. There is no device-N color space of K only objects. There is no way to control a single channel in a 4 channel file in a 3 color space and have some kind of control.
A prebound workflow assumes a SWOP separation. A tweening of said color space is a CMYK to CMYK cross render without a trip to LAB.
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I am not the creator of this word (I would have considered a more
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descriptive phase like: Embedded Color Management, so an end-user can
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stand a chance of figuring out the meaning) . so I can only speculate
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about this prebinding concept.
Prebinding is a term I picked up reading Chris Murphy / Bruce Frasers book. It was a descriptive lingo that fit somewhere between early binding and late binding.
I'm not glued to the term.
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Since all images potentially start as RGB then I am not sure what the
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problem is.
The problem is the simple fact that repurposing RGB files for print, with the requirements of commercial Ad agency edits, is not a doable workflow.
The problem is the simple fact that repurposing CMYK files for print, with the requirements of commercial Ad agency edits, and repurpose printing, is not a doable workflow.
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As for supplied and legacy CMYK files, PDF and in RIP conversions, why not
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create the concepts for those situations or a tool ( such as a device
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link) that falls under this prebinding umbrella.
Prebinding needs to be an Adobe CS workflow solution for the masses. It's not designed to replace the existing architecture, but to build upon it. It's designed to make users WANT to use it instead of the existing turd polishing that goes on with standing CMYK files for commercial print.
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As far as I can tell this prebinding thing is an idea like the concept of
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color portability was back in the late 1980s before it was given a better
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name. Today it is called color management. Maybe tomorrow a new name will
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be used?
Who knows. Call it a meat grinder. I don't care.
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And from what I can tell there is no rubber meeting the road yet so it will
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be at least 2 or 3 days before a change takes place.
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Jim Rich
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I see you're optimistic.
;o)
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Could you describe how this differs (or is similar) to PDF-X/3? It seems like there are similarities as PDF-X/3 allows RGB data and also the ability to include an anticipated output profile.
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Regards,
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Steve
I can't because I don't know the PDF-X3 specification or architecture.
please advise.
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mo
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