Re: Match the Proofer?
Re: Match the Proofer?
- Subject: Re: Match the Proofer?
- From: Roger Breton <email@hidden>
- Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 23:10:40 -0400
John and Terry and Neil and Matt all made a number of interesting
points.
In the search for generalization about "to ICC or not to ICC", the
safest approach should be to leave everything tagged in RGB as this is
where the future of digital workflows is heading anyway and it's a
matter of time before ICC conversions become routine in all kinds of
digital workflows -- JDF, Extreme, Prinergy, ApogeeX, Prinect, you name
it. As organizations realize the value of the assets they create
digitally, people want the flexibility of repurposing, more and more.
Yes, there are today in various stages of color mangement awareness,
from completly hostile to it to beign completely dependent on it. To
me, the, whole industry is slowly transitionning to the ICC country,
it's a force to be reckoned with. This is happening as drum scanners
are rendered obsolete by high end digital capture, disapearing of an
expert work force and so one. Slowly but surely, the sacred absolutist
CMYK paradigm that's been the mainstay of printing for so long can't
hold its own against the constant onslaught of computer technology, the
real driving force that's has captured the fundamental shift in
paradigm in printing over the last fifteen years. If anything, it's
only going to accelerate over the foreseable future.
So, what should it be?
Ideally, the press should be the ultimate target, assuming it's able to
replicate itself. But the colorimetric information about the press
capability inthe form of an ICC profile is still far from being
widespread. Admitteldy, there's still a large contingent of printers in
north america that are still operating without any kinds of awareness
of color management. That's a sad fact. So, no point asking these
people for their press profile. They'll laugh at us. Out of ignorance
and fear? Yes. Could be. But are we to simply walk away frm these
printers? I'd say, when dealing with this group of printer, in my
humble view, the best that one can shoot for it some standard printing
condition like TR-001, if the job is on coated paper. Why?
I was at a client last week and, after profiling their press and seeing
the poor results that they got in the past, having to put up with
whathever CMYK separations their clients would throw at them, thank god
there is the ICC and they will finally have access to custom profiles
for their presses.Because now, they have a means of predicting what
their clients's separations will look like when ran on their presses.
No only that but they now have a way of comparing their proofs with
their client's supplied proofs. So, instead of waiting for the job to
hit their presses, untouched, and living with the constant hell that it
creates, trying to match their client's proofs on their press, being
constantly in the dark (the way their presses are setup, they have
positively zero chances of hitting their client's proofs) they now have
some power to change things. They can act on their client's supplied
separations. Which have nothing wrong in themselves, if you ask me. But
they're just not separated for their limited printing conditions.
So, to implement an ICC workflow, they have the destination profile to
convert their client's supplied separations. The problem becomes what
are they going to assume for the Source? Especially when CMYK images
come in untagged 99.99999% of the time -- supplied jobs from
QuarkXpress and PDF come in WITHOUT ANY CMYK EMBEDDED PROFILES
WHATSOEVER)? Nice. What should be their response? Pack up and go home?
No. The only alternative is to assume TR-001. There is just no other
choice. So, now, when jobs come in, rain or shine, if it ain''t tagged
then it's slapped as TR-001, for al their coated work. And that's what
they convert from when converting to their presses. And it works. Now
the omen is on their client to get their proofing act together.
I admit it's a complicated situation but not one without hope or
solutions. To me, it's only a matter of time before the industry
matures color management wise. With the rate of substitution of old
technology for CTP and ever more integrated workflow around JDF,
Epson's printers becoming the norm in proofing because of their sheer
economies, as compared to all those dedicated proofers like the
Approval and what not, the need for ICC is inevitable.
Roger Breton
On 27-May-04, at 9:12 PM, jc castronovo wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Politano, Matthew"
OK - that was a bit rant-y, I apologise. But seriously, what is
reasonable
to look for/expect from a printer that claims to use colour
management?
Printers fall into two camps: those who've invested the time to fully
set
up and embrace color management and those who flatly oppose it. You
appear
to have run across one of the latter, but he wants you to think that
he's of
the former ilk - hence the obfuscation of facts.
What I've complained about (and taken some abuse over) is the
unequivocal
support that is given in some circles to printing professionals who
will
blame those who use color management for problems that occur as a
result. As
highly paid professionals, they bear responsibility for recognizing
profiling issues when they occur and dealing with it whether they want
to
use color management in their shops or not.
I have even less patience for those who say that they're color
managed, but
they won't clue anyone in to the secret settings that they use.
They've set
up a scenario whereby they can always blame the person submitting the
file.
Embed a profile, they ignore it, and it's wrong. Don't embed one, and
if
you'd guessed at their secret formulas incorrectly, it's your fault
again.
One has no choice but to pay these shops for proofs and corrections.
More
power to them , I suppose. At least they've figured out how to make
money at
everyone else's expense.
john c.
_______________________________________________
colorsync-users mailing list | email@hidden
Help/Unsubscribe/Archives:
http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
_______________________________________________
colorsync-users mailing list | email@hidden
Help/Unsubscribe/Archives:
http://www.lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.