Re: On SpectraView 2180WG LCD
Re: On SpectraView 2180WG LCD
- Subject: Re: On SpectraView 2180WG LCD
- From: Steve Kale <email@hidden>
- Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 23:46:38 +0000
- Thread-topic: On SpectraView 2180WG LCD
People may be interested in this information which was also posted on the
Yahoo Epson Wide Format Forum:
> Here are a few comments from Karl Lang on this subject from the
> Betterlight forum that some may find useful:
>
> Greetings, fellow betterlight users. I lurk here and I try to keep my
> mouth shut ;-) I can't spend too much time on this right now so
> forgive me if I don't respond to questions quickly. For those of you
> who don't know me I was the architect of the Sony Artisan, the Radius
> PressView, ColorMatch, ProSense and many other products. I have
> worked with display technology both CRT and LCD for the last 15 years.
>
> Color accurate LCDs pose many problems. I will not argue the CRT vs
> LCD debate. Suffice to say there are elements of a calibrated CRT
> that still can't be matched by any LCD - available - and there are
> also elements of LCD technology that exceed CRTs. We are improving
> things at a rapid pace. I expect within 2-3 years to be able to
> finally feel comfortable stating that we have an all around superior
> product in the LCD space.
>
> I am writing this email to attempt to dispel some myths and provide
> some guidance for your LCD purchasing. You can't buy a good CRT any
> more, the only ones left are of poor quality because the cost has
> been reduced so much all the expensive quality components are not
> used anymore. There was a reason that some CRTs cost 2-3K - the parts
> were very expensive. Now the analog electronics use VLSI to reduce
> cost, resulting in poor comparative quality.
>
> 1) A wide gamut LCD display is not a good thing for most (95%) of
> high end users. The data that leaves your graphic card and travels
> over the DVI cable is 8 bit per component. You can't change this. The
> OS, ICC CMMs, the graphic card, the DVI spec, and Photoshop will all
> have to be upgraded before this will change and that's going to take
> a while. What does this mean to you? It means that when you send RGB
> data to a wide gamut display the colorimetric distance between any
> two colors is much larger. As an example, lets say you have two
> adjacent color patches one is 230,240,200 and the patch next to it is
> 230,241,200. On a standard LCD or CRT those two colors may be
> around .8 Delta E apart. On an Adobe RGB display those colors might
> be 2 Delta E apart on an ECI RGB display this could be as high as 4
> delta E.
>
> It's very nice to be able to display all kinds of saturated colors
> you may never use in your photographs, however if the smallest
> visible adjustment you can make to a skin tone is 4 delta E you will
> become very frustrated very quickly.
>
> 2) More bits in the display does not fix this problem. 10 bit LUTs,
> 14 Bit 3D LUTs, 10 bit column drivers, time-domain bits, none of
> these technologies will solve problem 1. Until the path from
> photoshop to the pixel is at least 10 bits the whole way, I advise
> sticking to a display with something close to ColorMatch or sRGB.
>
> 3) Unless the display has "TRUE 10 bit or greater 1D LUTs that are 8-
> 10-10" user front panel controls for color temp, blacklevel and gamma
> are useless for calibration and can in fact make things worse. An
> 8-10-8 3D LUT will not hurt things and can help achieve a fixed
> contrast ratio which is a good thing.
>
> Only Mitsubishi/NEC displays with "GammaComp" have 8-10-8 3D LUTs at
> this time. Some Samsung displays may have this I don't test many of
> their panels as the performance in other areas has been lacking.
>
> Only the Eizo 210, 220 and NEC2180WG have 8-10-10 paths. If you
> really want to know... the path in the Eizo is "8-14bit3D-8-10bit1D-
> 10" go figure that one out ;-) The 2180WG has an actual 10 bit DVI
> interface with a 10-10-10 path but nothing supports it so you can't
> use it yet - but for $6500 your ready when it does ;-)
>
> 4) The testing methodology for the seybold report article was very
> poor. It demonstrates the authors complete lack of understanding with
> regards to LCD calibration. At some point I may write a full
> rebuttal.
> As an example the fact that Apple's display has no controls other
> than backlight is actually a very good thing for an 8-8-8 LCD if your
> going to use calibration. Apple optimizes the factory LUTs so as to
> provide the most individual colors. smooth greyscale and the least
> loss. Then the calibration is done in the graphic card LUT. As these
> are all 8 bit it's best if the user does not mess with the display
> LUTs at all.
> Overall Lab to Lab Delta E of 23 patches is a very poor metric to
> evaluate a display. It completely leaves out many areas of color
> space (the tool they used is designed to make the colorimeter look
> good so tuff patches are not included) contrast ratio, stability,
> aging, greyscale performance and other important considerations.
>
> Many people ask for my recommendations. I am not happy with anything
> we have right now. That said I can evaluate what there is.
>
> Price performance wise the great bargain is the NEC 1980SXI BK the
> price/vs colorimetric performance of this display can't be beat. The
> 2180ux Is a great display at a reasonable but high end price.
>
> In the mid-high wide screen I like the Apple and the SONY. Reject the
> display if uniformity is bad and make sure whomever you buy it from
> will exchange it.
>
> The Eizo 210 is great if you can justify the current cost. Give it
> two years and most high-end displays should perform at this level.
> 220 is a great display but suffers from all the downfalls of any wide
> gamut display.
>
> There is no reason to buy the La Cie 321 it's just an NEC with their
> label on it and an extra $400.
>
> The Monaco Optix XR is the best colorimeter for LCDs at this time.
>
> These are my personal opinions.
>
> Feel free to ask any questions, it may take me awhile to respond.
>
>
>
> Karl Lang
>
>
>
> From: Andrew Rodney <email@hidden>
> Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 14:31:00 -0700
> To: Marco Ugolini <email@hidden>, ColorSync Users Mailing List
> <email@hidden>
> Conversation: On SpectraView 2180WG LCD
> Subject: Re: On SpectraView 2180WG LCD
>
> On 1/5/06 2:25 PM, "Marco Ugolini" wrote:
>
>> I'm interested in that too. Could you please provide more details?
>
> There's a review coming in the March issue of Professional Photographer mag.
> But its an impressive (and I have to admit expensive) product with some
> state of the art display technology. From a color management standpoint, the
> display has some features such as control over the light lacking in every
> CCFL LCD. That you can view a wide gamut (which by the way can be a
> disadvantage too) isn't as compelling as some of the other technologies
> based on using an LED as a backlight.
>
> Andrew Rodney
> http://www.digitaldog.net/
>
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