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Re: how not to contribute to this forum
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Re: how not to contribute to this forum


  • Subject: Re: how not to contribute to this forum
  • From: Martin Orpen <email@hidden>
  • Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 00:23:08 +0100

On 11 Jul 2007, at 20:53, John Gnaegy wrote:

In which case the more-or-less open discussion becomes a more-or- less *closed* discussion.

Martin, you derailed the thread Chris Murphy started about an article about color management into a rant against Adobe's pricing structure. Those two topics are only barely tangentially related.

John

Let's separate the hype from the reality here:

1. Chris Murphy posted a link which he described as a "white paper".

2. The link was also obscured using TinyURL which would resolve to this:

<http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/family/ prophotographer/pdfs/pscs3_renderprint.pdf>

You ask: "You're suggesting Chris shouldn't have posted the link?"

And I say that:

a. He shouldn't have described it as a "white paper"
b. If he wanted to use TinyURL then it would have been helpful to at least mention that this was an Adobe document - not actually a Karl Lang document


My reason for posting was that I'm not a big fan of "informercials" being passed off as "white papers" - as you'll be able to see from the follow up message that I posted to Marco.

You then steered it toward becoming a flame war with this:

on July 8 4:47:57 PM PDT Martin Orpen said:
Really? You surprise me!
How exactly did Karl Lang's paper further *your* knowledge?
My assumption was that most contributors to this list should know all of this stuff already...
And none of these papers directly promote Adobe's products.
ROTFL.
You really should read these things before offering us your opinions!


I've absolutely no interest in flame wars. And I don't post here unless I've got something that I think is important to mention.

My question to Marco was in earnest and it's one that I'll repeat again for any contributor here:

"How does Karl Lang's paper (sic) further *your* knowledge?"

Personally, when I read Karl Lang I expect to be challenged - like his forum posts on LCD technology.

This "infomercial" is a statement of the bleedin' obvious - not only for Marco, but also for Chris Murphy and 99 per cent of the contributors to this list.

Posting the term "ROTFL" was quite restrained in the face of Marco's contention that "none of these papers directly promote Adobe's products" - because he is utterly and completely wrong. It is an "infomercial" created to reinforce Adobe's position in the market and the "rightness" of their interests in everybody embracing RAW workflows.

If you're already aware of everything about color management, that's great, not everyone is. This forum is not just for you. A lot of people read this and don't post. You're suggesting Chris shouldn't have posted the link? Or that Marco is incorrect in stating that the papers further knowledge? No, it sounds more like you just wanted to insult Marco.

If Marco is unable to separate himself from polemics then I can't do a lot about that. You can obviously ramp up the amount of list- mummery and start banning people because they don't type the way that suits the more sensitive souls around here - but it's a slippery slope you're heading down.


We're all adults here and banning people for posting "ROTFL" is the kind of thing that you'd expect on an AOL list for teens.

That's why I asked that the thread be closed, not for the content, but the inflammatory delivery and increasingly personal nature of the confrontation. Instead of letting the thread die you derailed another thread to protest that request.

That thread did die. For satirical purposes I posted somebody else's response about my being "off-topic" to yet another thread that had nothing whatsoever to do with ColorSync.


I know you've posted to the list for a long time, I don't want to have to ban you. Just take it down a few notches and I won't have to.

What? Like I'm suddenly "public enemy number one" around here?

My points - that were described as "nastiness" and "off-topic" and "insulting" still stand.

We have infomercials being posted as "white papers". And you've been reminded that your cheap US Adobe products are being partly funded by us UK users who have to pay more than double for the same upgrade and more than $1000 more for the identical full product.

Personally, I'd really like the discussion to be more Apple-centric - but I doubt that would go down well either amongst the Adobe-centric discussions?

I'd really like to hear from somebody like you about why Apple have been so reluctant to develop a product in Photoshop's market?

The Mac OS had a 2-3 year window where the Core Image APIs could be used to do the work that Photoshop does in a much faster, more efficient manner. Developers got Core Image Fun House and we saw a couple of interesting third party apps - but Apple did *nothing*. And, as usual, we see more interesting stuff at the WWDC with Steve Jobs doing 64-bit retouching faster than Photoshop is capable of.

Technologies like Quartz Composer are mind-blowing in their power and the uniqueness of the interface - why haven't these been developed as a new Pro retouching app by Apple?

I'd like to see some alternatives to Adobe products and I find it infuriating that Apple have the technology but seem rather reluctant to develop it. We would all benefit from alternative solutions and I'd really like it if Apple provided them.

Assuring you of my best intentions and dedication to the highest quality colour on a Mac.

--
Martin Orpen
Idea Digital Imaging Ltd


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  • Follow-Ups:
    • How not to contribute to this forum -- ask Martin
      • From: Marco Ugolini <email@hidden>
    • Re: how not to contribute to this forum
      • From: John Gnaegy <email@hidden>
    • Re: how not to contribute to this forum
      • From: Andrew Rodney <email@hidden>
References: 
 >Re: Lightroom (From: Roger Breton <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Lightroom (From: Martin Orpen <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Lightroom (From: Terry Wyse <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Lightroom (From: Martin Orpen <email@hidden>)
 >how not to contribute to this forum (From: John Gnaegy <email@hidden>)

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