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Re: Color management in a CMYK world
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Re: Color management in a CMYK world


  • Subject: Re: Color management in a CMYK world
  • From: Lorenzo Ridolfi <email@hidden>
  • Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 22:57:57 -0300

Mike,
Thank you!

Mike Adams wrote:

Most folks who are reluctant to switch to RGB aren't reluctant because they care about what color space the file is in. They're reluctant because they think that if they start working in RGB, they have to start thinking in RGB. I've got a fifteen-minute demonstration that I show guys in this situation, and I've never had anyone after seeing it want to stick with CMYK. You might point out to them that they can still use whatever sliders in their applications they want.
What kind of demonstration do you do ? A RGB workflow with soft-proof, etc ending in a CMYK profile ?

I know that there's no "CMYK working space" and dealing with CMYK to CMYK conversions is asking for trouble. The question is which CMYK profile should the print guys use when editing the files? The printer profile? It seems very odd to me... They receive untagged CMYK files from their customer (actually, they ASK for untagged CMYK files), so the customer does the separations.

They run large ink-jet printers (solvent based) driven by Scanvec Amiable's Photoprint. Any recommendation for building profiles for these printers ? (which target, number of patches, ink limit, CGR settings, etc).

You can just about bet that running these types of machines and in this type of environment and with the clients they're likely to have, that if they get untagged CMYK, it's going to have been created in Illustrator or Photoshop and be SWOP (the default for both) unless they accept Corel Draw files which have their own default CMYK space.

Their input is mostly Corel Draw. Do you know which CMYK color space Corel uses ? And about the CMYK to CMYK conversion. How do you deal with it ?



And, it's a good bet that on most media they use, SWOP is going to have a smaller gamut than their printers, which is probably why they're reasonably happy and don't want to change. It's hard to chase colors you can't print that way. Only problem of course is that they're leaving a lot of machine capability lying on the table.


The right way to do it is to profile at the RIP. Photoprint's sequence--or Flexi-Signs is and I'm pretty sure Photoprint is the same--as most RIP's, is: single-channel ink limit; linearization; multi-channel ink-limit; ICC profile. It's a bad, bad, bad idea to try to set ink limits anywhere other than in the RIP. My procedure with all RIP's is to do the three first steps in the RIP, then build and import a Monaco profile. My experience has been that on these machines right around a thousand patches is a good bet. Fewer gets you a poor profile and more tends to be overkill.

Thank you. I'll follow your workflow.


Ink limits of course will vary greatly from machine to machine and media to media. And personally I favor a very light touch on GCR on all inkjets. What they need with these machines is a profile for every media they use on each machine, in every resolution they print on that media. Since most such companies don't know when designing which machine they might send the job to print to, it's almost impossible to bind to the correct CMYK space upfront with so many profiles to choose from.

Ok. In this initial step, I'll only profile the most used paper. It's a semi-gloss one.



What they need to do is work in RGB, soft-proof to the media they're going to use through their own machine profiles, then do the CMYK conversion at the RIP.

I'll be very glad if they start to work in RGB!


Honestly, it's an in-for-a-penny, in-for-a-pound thing. Until they're ready to do it all, they shouldn't even start.



I know the real results will happen when the full workflow is ready. Their first objective is have a good soft-proof and a good INTERNAL color match. I know it's very strange, but the matching with the customer is the second phase. Of course, showing a complete RGB workflow is the first thing I'll show after the profile, to try to sell the idea of a complete workflow.


Best regards,
Lorenzo


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References: 
 >Color management in a CMYK world (From: Lorenzo Ridolfi <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Color management in a CMYK world (From: Mike Adams <email@hidden>)

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