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Re: UV filtered vs. non UV filtered spectros
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Re: UV filtered vs. non UV filtered spectros


  • Subject: Re: UV filtered vs. non UV filtered spectros
  • From: Terry Wyse <email@hidden>
  • Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 19:04:32 -0400


On May 29, 2007, at 4:25 PM, Todd Shirley wrote:

You say the standard data is "by definition" with UV-included. This is only relevant if the paper the characterization data was taken from has optical brighteners, right?

In commercial and even some publication printing, what papers DON'T have at least some optical brighteners? I would say if your paper measures -2 b* or greater (numerically), you've got OBs at play. In the offset printing world, ISO paper types 3 and 5 are about the only two papers that don't include some OBs.


And when I said "by definition" standard characterization data is UV- included, that's because that's the standard. In other words, if you're dealing with standard characterization data in a proofing RIP, you'll likely have an easier time matching that data using a UV- included spectro than anything else in my opinion, regardless of whether the paper has OBs or not. OBs is not JUST about the paper, it can also affect the ink readings as inks can also have florescent brighteners added.


The thing about the iSis, as I understand it, is that in order to take UV-included measurements it actually takes 2 readings of each patch, using different illuminants, and then does some sort of averaging to come up with the Lab value. This has the effect of making the whole device run at half the speed that it runs in UVcut mode, where it is only making one measurement of each patch. It also means, in my limited testing, that the UV-included measurements are somewhat different than the UV-included measurements off the i1pro, which is only taking one measurement with no filter, but with a different illuminant.

Yes, that's right. The iSis in "UV-included" mode scans 2 rows at time with the normal "white" LED illumination and then goes back and rescans these same 2 rows with the normal illumination off and with a special UV-emitting LED illuminant turned on. If all you're looking for is one-or-the-other measurements (UV/non-UV) it takes twice as long but if you use Measure Tool, at the end of the measurements it will give you BOTH sets of data that you can save. If you're in the habit of taking both UV-cut and UV-included measurements, this can actually save you some time.




I believe the DTP70 (which I don't have) simply has a mechanical switch for using the UV filter, which means it runs at the same speed in both modes and just seems to make more sense than the iSis method. Of course they don't make the DTP70 anymore! The Spectrolino also seems more logical, in that you just mechanically change filters. Also no longer in production! And of course your solution of buying 2 Eye-Ones does has the nasty side-effect of doubling the price. So you just can't win!

Well, nobody said these decisions would be easy! :-)
But seriously, at least buying two Eye-Ones is cheaper than either an iSis, DTP70 or Spectrolino.


I was doing some testing just last week (only my second GMG install using an iSis) and I found that the paper white simulation was fully 5 dE off, most of that in the b* value, when measured with my unfiltered GMB SpectroEye as compared to the GRACoL2006_Coated1 data set (paper white 95/0/-2). Fortunately with GMG I was able to apply a "target value correction" to the original paper white Lab values to effectively lie to the iSis. After this correction and a couple more iterations, the paper white simulation was perfect. The point here is that 1) you need a good UNfiltered spectro to use as a "reference" instrument to measure and correct for the effects of the UV-cut measurements and 2) if you're doing proofing, you need a proofing RIP and/or profile editor that allows you to correct for these effects.

Regards,
Terry

_____________________________
WyseConsul
Color Management Consulting
G7 Certified Expert
email@hidden
704.843.0858
http://www.wyseconsul.com
http://www.colormanagementgroup.com


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  • Follow-Ups:
    • Re: UV filtered vs. non UV filtered spectros
      • From: Graeme Gill <email@hidden>
References: 
 >UV filtered vs. non UV filtered spectros (From: Matthew Larmour <email@hidden>)
 >Re: UV filtered vs. non UV filtered spectros (From: Todd Shirley <email@hidden>)
 >Re: UV filtered vs. non UV filtered spectros (From: Terry Wyse <email@hidden>)
 >Re: UV filtered vs. non UV filtered spectros (From: Todd Shirley <email@hidden>)

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