Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 5, Issue 254 (Out of the office until 10/12)
Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 5, Issue 254 (Out of the office until 10/12)
- Subject: Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 5, Issue 254 (Out of the office until 10/12)
- From: "Jeffrey Reed" <email@hidden>
- Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:06:44 -0400
I will be out of the office until Thursday, October 12.
If you are requesting photo coverage for an event, please contact Earl
McDonald (x75957).
I will be monitoring email messages, but may not reply promtly. If you
need immediate assistance, pleace contact Steven Puglia (x7616).
Jeff Reed
NWTS Photo Lab
National Archives & Records Administration
301.837.0950
>>> colorsync-users 07/30/08 15:06 >>>
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Today's Topics:
1. More web color problems (Tyler Boley)
2. Re: Can you profile through laminate? (Jon Crook)
3. PS Elements 6.0, is there any workaround to soft proof?
(Millers' Photography L.L.C.)
4. Re: PS Elements 6.0, is there any workaround to soft proof?
(edmund ronald)
5. Re: PS Elements 6.0, is there any workaround to soft proof?
(Millers' Photography L.L.C.)
6. Re: PS Elements 6.0, is there any workaround to soft proof?
(edmund ronald)
7. Re: PS Elements 6.0, is there any workaround to soft proof?
(Millers' Photography L.L.C.)
8. Re: PS Elements 6.0, is there any workaround to soft proof?
(Millers' Photography L.L.C.)
9. Re: PS Elements 6.0, is there any workaround to soft proof?
(Millers' Photography L.L.C.)
10. Re: Monitor Profile being introduced in RGB printflow from
IDCS3. (Roger Breton)
11. Re: More web color problems (Roger Breton)
12. Re: SWOP3 and SWOP5, profiling issues. (Roger Breton)
13. Re: More web color problems (Uli Zappe)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:48:58 -0700
From: Tyler Boley <email@hidden>
Subject: More web color problems
To: email@hidden
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
images prepared for web, saved in and tagged with sRGB are viewing
exactly as intended in Photoshop, SeaMonkey (Firefox), Internet
Explorer. In Apple applications they are viewing very blue, as though a
white point issue. This is the case in Preview, as well as Safari which
is supposed to honor profiles. When profile is stripped, they display in
Preview much more accurately, but not exactly of course as they are not
managed at all other than monitor. Since it's only Apple apps, I'm
wondering if there is a system level color management bug from a recent
update?
Suspecting a corruption, I downloaded a new sRGB profile to convert
content to, results are the same.
Any advice is very appreciated.
Thank you.
Tyler
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 17:55:55 -0500
From: Jon Crook <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: Can you profile through laminate?
To: Robert Rock <email@hidden>, 'Jim Mowreader'
<email@hidden>, ColorSync
<email@hidden>
Message-ID: <C4B50A2B.3406%email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Robert-
Here is a well kept secret in the world of matte lamination.
GBC BOPP Scuff Free 1.4M Polypropalene Matte
This film performs like a 1.7M but has unbelievable clairity. Not milky
at
all. You cant tell there is lamination on it. This will solve some of
your
profiling issues with matte or at least improve the problem with gamut
clipping that occurs with other matte films.
--
Jonathan Crook
Director of Color Management
Corporate Image
www.corp-image.com
800.247.8194
On 7/29/08 8:35 AM, "Robert Rock" <email@hidden> wrote:
> Jim,
> I am in the printing business and created profiles for my clients that
use
> matte lamination on all their book covers. All of our printing is done
> overseas (primarily China and Korea) so it was something that I had to
do,
> as the printers were not cooperative.
>
> I did not profile the gloss lamination because we felt the greatest
> difference in color appeared with the matte lamination. The gloss lam
> generally gave more intense and saturated appearance which the clients
> didn't seem to mind, and the slight bluish cast (or in our case a
slightly
> yellowish cast) did not seem to bother them. But the matte lam was a
huge
> problem...many colors changed completely. A maroon background, for
example,
> might become a brown color. Our clients designers were having a fit!
>
> I used Monaco Profiler 4.8, with XRite DTP70 scanner. The problem you
are
> going to encounter are two-fold. First of all, depending on the
thickness of
> the substrate with the lamination, it may cause feeding problems,
unless you
> plan to scan manually. Secondly, you need to be aware of the science
behind
> light coming through matte lamination. If you take a matte laminated
cover
> and turn it at different angles while you look at it, you will see
that the
> colors will vary...some significantly, others not so much. That's
because
> the light is being scattered as it passes back out through the
lamination to
> your eyes, or to the scanner head. Just as the colors will appear
different
> as you tilt the cover at different angles, the reading from the
scanner will
> also vary. I scanned the same sheet several times and got slightly
different
> readings each time. So, this is not a perfect solution, but my
profiles DID
> greatly improve color generally speaking. There are some colors that
will be
> impossible to match after matte lamination, but generally most matches
will
> be improved.
>
> I am VERY interested to hear more about your progress, as I am still
> involved in this on an ongoing basis. Stay in touch.
>
> Bob Rock
> P. Chan & Edward, Inc.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: colorsync-users-bounces+bobrock=email@hidden
> [mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+bobrock=email@hidden]
On
> Behalf Of Jim Mowreader
> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 9:19 AM
> To: email@hidden
> Subject: Can you profile through laminate?
>
> We laminate everything we print, and the laminates we use have a cyan
cast
> to them.
>
> We are considering profiling our printers to not only media, but also
> laminate, so each
> printer would have four profiles: MACtac 5529 (high-performance gloss
vinyl)
> with both
> glossy and flat lams, and MACtac 5828 (intermediate matte vinyl) with
both
> glossy
> and flat lams. This would double the amount of work in building and
> maintaining profiles,
> but if it's possible it would be worth it to us.
>
> So...has anyone here attempted to profile laminated material, and how
did it
> work for you?
>
> --Jim
> _______________________________________________
> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
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> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>
> m
>
> This email sent to email@hidden
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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--
Jonathan Crook
Director of Color Management
Corporate Image
www.corp-image.com
800.247.8194
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:49:54 -0700
From: "Millers' Photography L.L.C." <email@hidden>
Subject: PS Elements 6.0, is there any workaround to soft proof?
To: email@hidden
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
For Mac OS 10.5.4, and PS Elements 6.0, is there any workaround to
soft proof?
David B. Miller, Pharm. D., member
Millers' Photography L.L.C.
3809 Alabama Street
Bellingham, WA 98226
360 714 1345
360 739 2826
email@hidden
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 04:55:25 +0200
From: "edmund ronald" <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: PS Elements 6.0, is there any workaround to soft proof?
To: "Millers' Photography L.L.C." <email@hidden>
Cc: email@hidden
Message-ID:
<email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I guess you can use the OS to convert to the printer profile, look at
the result in Preview which honors random profiles, or convert back to
AdobeRGB and examine the image in Elements.
Edmund
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 4:49 AM, Millers' Photography L.L.C.
<email@hidden> wrote:
> For Mac OS 10.5.4, and PS Elements 6.0, is there any workaround to
soft
> proof?
>
> David B. Miller, Pharm. D., member
> Millers' Photography L.L.C.
> 3809 Alabama Street
> Bellingham, WA 98226
> 360 714 1345
> 360 739 2826
> email@hidden
>
> _______________________________________________
> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> Colorsync-users mailing list (email@hidden)
> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>
>
> This email sent to email@hidden
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 20:00:02 -0700
From: "Millers' Photography L.L.C." <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: PS Elements 6.0, is there any workaround to soft proof?
To: "edmund ronald" <email@hidden>
Cc: email@hidden
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
On Jul 29, 2008, at 7:55 PM, edmund ronald wrote:
> I guess you can use the OS to convert to the printer profile, look at
> the result in Preview which honors random profiles, or convert back to
> AdobeRGB and examine the image in Elements.
> Edmund
>
Edmund, how would this be done. Please put in detail the steps to do
this.
I have a client that unfortunately uses the Elements 6, and I am
suggesting she ask Adobe to take back the 6 and upgrade to the CS
3. I don't know what will come of this.
David
> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 4:49 AM, Millers' Photography L.L.C.
> <email@hidden> wrote:
>> For Mac OS 10.5.4, and PS Elements 6.0, is there any workaround to
>> soft
>> proof?
>>
>> David B. Miller, Pharm. D., member
>> Millers' Photography L.L.C.
>> 3809 Alabama Street
>> Bellingham, WA 98226
>> 360 714 1345
>> 360 739 2826
>> email@hidden
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>> Colorsync-users mailing list (email@hidden)
>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>
>>
>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 05:15:26 +0200
From: "edmund ronald" <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: PS Elements 6.0, is there any workaround to soft proof?
To: "Millers' Photography L.L.C." <email@hidden>
Cc: email@hidden
Message-ID:
<email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Actually, I think the latest Preview can do SoftProofing:
Preview > Tools > Match To Profile
Then select the printer profile from the pop-ups (RGB or CMYK)
And stare at the screen.
Edmund
> I have a client that unfortunately uses the Elements 6, and I am
suggesting
> she ask Adobe to take back the 6 and upgrade to the CS 3. I don't
know
> what will come of this.
>
> David
>
>
>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 4:49 AM, Millers' Photography L.L.C.
>> <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>
>>> For Mac OS 10.5.4, and PS Elements 6.0, is there any workaround to
soft
>>> proof?
>>>
>>> David B. Miller, Pharm. D., member
>>> Millers' Photography L.L.C.
>>> 3809 Alabama Street
>>> Bellingham, WA 98226
>>> 360 714 1345
>>> 360 739 2826
>>> email@hidden
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>> Colorsync-users mailing list (email@hidden)
>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 20:18:28 -0700
From: "Millers' Photography L.L.C." <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: PS Elements 6.0, is there any workaround to soft proof?
To: "edmund ronald" <email@hidden>
Cc: email@hidden
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
On Jul 29, 2008, at 8:15 PM, edmund ronald wrote:
> Actually, I think the latest Preview can do SoftProofing:
>
> Preview > Tools > Match To Profile
> Then select the printer profile from the pop-ups (RGB or CMYK)
> And stare at the screen.
>
> Edmund
>
Okay. How do I keep this printer profile so it is tagged and can be
brought up in CS 3?
I have just been trying your suggestion, and the screen image looks
terrible
david
>
>> I have a client that unfortunately uses the Elements 6, and I am
>> suggesting
>> she ask Adobe to take back the 6 and upgrade to the CS 3. I
>> don't know
>> what will come of this.
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 4:49 AM, Millers' Photography L.L.C.
>>> <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> For Mac OS 10.5.4, and PS Elements 6.0, is there any workaround
>>>> to soft
>>>> proof?
>>>>
>>>> David B. Miller, Pharm. D., member
>>>> Millers' Photography L.L.C.
>>>> 3809 Alabama Street
>>>> Bellingham, WA 98226
>>>> 360 714 1345
>>>> 360 739 2826
>>>> email@hidden
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>> Colorsync-users mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>
>>
>>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 20:20:48 -0700
From: "Millers' Photography L.L.C." <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: PS Elements 6.0, is there any workaround to soft proof?
To: "edmund ronald" <email@hidden>
Cc: email@hidden
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
On Jul 29, 2008, at 8:15 PM, edmund ronald wrote:
> Actually, I think the latest Preview can do SoftProofing:
>
> Preview > Tools > Match To Profile
> Then select the printer profile from the pop-ups (RGB or CMYK)
> And stare at the screen.
>
> Edmund
I did what you suggested, saved, and reopened in CS 3. Not good!
David
>
>
>
>> I have a client that unfortunately uses the Elements 6, and I am
>> suggesting
>> she ask Adobe to take back the 6 and upgrade to the CS 3. I
>> don't know
>> what will come of this.
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 4:49 AM, Millers' Photography L.L.C.
>>> <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> For Mac OS 10.5.4, and PS Elements 6.0, is there any workaround
>>>> to soft
>>>> proof?
>>>>
>>>> David B. Miller, Pharm. D., member
>>>> Millers' Photography L.L.C.
>>>> 3809 Alabama Street
>>>> Bellingham, WA 98226
>>>> 360 714 1345
>>>> 360 739 2826
>>>> email@hidden
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>> Colorsync-users mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>
>>
>>
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 20:22:29 -0700
From: "Millers' Photography L.L.C." <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: PS Elements 6.0, is there any workaround to soft proof?
To: edmund ronald <email@hidden>
Cc: email@hidden
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
On Jul 29, 2008, at 8:15 PM, edmund ronald wrote:
> Actually, I think the latest Preview can do SoftProofing:
>
> Preview > Tools > Match To Profile
> Then select the printer profile from the pop-ups (RGB or CMYK)
> And stare at the screen.
>
> Edmund
>
I need another approach
David
>
>> I have a client that unfortunately uses the Elements 6, and I am
>> suggesting
>> she ask Adobe to take back the 6 and upgrade to the CS 3. I
>> don't know
>> what will come of this.
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 4:49 AM, Millers' Photography L.L.C.
>>> <email@hidden> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> For Mac OS 10.5.4, and PS Elements 6.0, is there any workaround
>>>> to soft
>>>> proof?
>>>>
>>>> David B. Miller, Pharm. D., member
>>>> Millers' Photography L.L.C.
>>>> 3809 Alabama Street
>>>> Bellingham, WA 98226
>>>> 360 714 1345
>>>> 360 739 2826
>>>> email@hidden
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>>>> Colorsync-users mailing list (email@hidden)
>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This email sent to email@hidden
>>>>
>>
>>
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:41:47 -0400
From: Roger Breton <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: Monitor Profile being introduced in RGB printflow from
IDCS3.
To: Doyle Yoder <email@hidden>, ColorSync
<email@hidden>
Message-ID: <C4B55B3B.26DC9%email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Doyle,
> When did this every exist before IDCS3. If this is the case then every
> paper profile that was every produced by the paper suppliers would
> likely print different on nearly every computer.
Welcome to the club.
>*I have never seen a
> print from a profile for PS look different from computer to computer
> printed with the same settings.
I agree that across platforms, Photoshop print pipeline remains
constant.
Amen to that. But the same cannot be said, in my experience, between
Illustrator, InDesign and Photoshop. As long as an RGB print driver is
called between the application and the system.
>*And I remind you that a PS profile
> used in printing from IDCS2 was identical to the print from PS. NOT IN
> IDCS3!
You mean, in CMYK or RGB?
> I find it quite irritating that statements like this are made,
> enabling Adobe and Apple to keep right on ignoring this problem with
> IDCS3 which I might add is the only Adobe app that is exists in.
I agree it's irritating.
> Doyle
Roger Breton
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:44:02 -0400
From: Roger Breton <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: More web color problems
To: Tyler Boley <email@hidden>, ColorSync
<email@hidden>
Message-ID: <C4B55BC2.26DCA%email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Suspecting a corruption, I downloaded a new sRGB profile to convert
> content to, results are the same.
> Any advice is very appreciated.
> Thank you.
> Tyler
Stay away from the Mac? I know it's crazy to say that :(
Unless you start building your own apps and make the system calls
yourself.
Roger Breton
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:51:49 -0400
From: Roger Breton <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: SWOP3 and SWOP5, profiling issues.
To: Rolf Gierling <email@hidden>, ColorSync
<email@hidden>
Message-ID: <C4B55D95.26DCD%email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Rolf,
I found the profiles :
> SWOP2006_Coated3_GCR_bas.icc (1,9 MB)
>*SWOP2006_Coated5_GCR_bas.icc (1,9 MB)
Danke sho*n.
But why only GCR profiles? Can't UCR profiles be posted as well? So
people
can have a common basis of comparison with those from X-Rite, Kodak and
TGLC?
MfG,
> no problems here to reach http://www.colormanagement.org
> and the profiles.
>
> Regards
>
> Rolf Gierling
Roger Breton
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 06:52:24 +0200
From: Uli Zappe <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: More web color problems
To: Tyler Boley <email@hidden>
Cc: email@hidden
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Am 29.07.2008 um 23:48 schrieb Tyler Boley:
> images prepared for web, saved in and tagged with sRGB are viewing
> exactly as intended in Photoshop, SeaMonkey (Firefox), Internet
> Explorer. In Apple applications they are viewing very blue, as
> though a white point issue. This is the case in Preview, as well as
> Safari which is supposed to honor profiles. When profile is
> stripped, they display in Preview much more accurately, but not
> exactly of course as they are not managed at all other than monitor.
> Since it's only Apple apps, I'm wondering if there is a system level
> color management bug from a recent update?
What version of Mac OS X are you running? With Leopard 10.5.4 (9E17),
the procedure you describe is running flawlessly here.
Which app did you use to convert your images to and tag them with
sRGB? To debug the whole situation, I would try to perform this step
with another app. E.g. if you converted the images from your original
working space to sRGB in Photoshop, try to do that in Preview or
ColorSync Utility instead. Does the issue still occur then?
Bye
Uli
________________________________________________________
Uli Zappe, Solmsstra*e 5, D-65189 Wiesbaden, Germany
http://www.ritual.org
Fon: +49-700-ULIZAPPE
Fax: +49-700-ZAPPEFAX
________________________________________________________
------------------------------
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End of Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 5, Issue 254
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