Re: SWOP Proof Certification, TRxxx Characterization Data
Re: SWOP Proof Certification, TRxxx Characterization Data
- Subject: Re: SWOP Proof Certification, TRxxx Characterization Data
- From: Todd Shirley <email@hidden>
- Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2008 23:23:08 -0400
On Oct 28, 2008, at 10:08 PM, Roger Breton wrote:
This is why I believe press proofing
will make great strides in the coming months, years. At least with
press
proofing, there is *no* confusion as what the tolerance is.
To which you replied:
Press proofing....ya think? Not sure clients want to pay for
that...perhaps for
a digital press.
Please consider that, with current monitors quality like the Eizo's
or the
HP or the NEC or the Quatto or the LaCIE or the Samsung (have I left
anyone
out?), the technical quality is there. Please consider also the
economics of
press proofing. This, in my opnion, is what's going to make this
happen.
Consider TimeLife, the largest US publishers. They recently complete
the
elimination of all hardcopy proofing from their operations.
Personnally, I
see it happening more and more every day. The way I see it, I don't
think
it's going to be driven by clients but by printers, who have much to
gain in
this process in view of declining margins and overall shrinking
sales volume
because of the gradual and unstoppable migration of advertising
dollar to
the internet -- what is making google richer is making the printing
industry
poorer. And there are logistics as well as time saving advantages.
And, like
I said, with monitors, there *can't* be issues of optical brighteners,
right?
Hi Roger
So you are talking about soft proofing or virtual proofing, not press
proofing. I understand press proofing to mean doing a short run on
press as way of creating a proof. You are talking about viewing proofs
on monitors. Time Life doesn't do press proofs, they do soft proofs.
And while there can't be optical brighteners in monitors, there
certainly are optical brighteners on most press stocks, so soft-
proofing would do well to simulate them. And you say there is no
confusion what the tolerance is... so what is the tolerance? While the
ADS sheets on SWOP.org specify white point, brightness and gamma, I
don't see anything that lists tolerances. All the ADS sheets say is
this extremely vague statement: “The appearance of a hard copy or
monitor proof used in this application must have the ability to
closely match specific CGATS or other documented characterization data
sets within outlined tolerances. See further explanations and
recommendations outlined on www.swop.org or www.gracol.org"
I agree that virtual proofing has made great strides and may one day
replace hard proofing, but we have a similar problem in that
tolerances are not clearly defined. In fact, it is even worse with
virtual proofing, because viewing conditions aren't even mentioned,
much less defined. At least with a hard copy proof it is understood
that it is supposed to be viewed in a D50 light booth. What color
light is supposed to be surrounding your virtual proofing monitor? How
bright should it be? What color should the surround be? Even a
perfectly calibrated and profiled monitor isn't going to look the same
in a fluorescent lit press room and a dimly lit office.
While I am being argumentative, don't take it to mean that I don't
think the aimpoints for any kind of proofing aren't worth trying to
hit. I check my proofs all the time and whenever I get a proof from
someone else with a control strip or FOGRA wedge I read it in to see
how they compare. I'm just pointing out the fundamental frustration
that Klaus expressed to start this thread. You and I are enthusiastic
about color analysis and digging around for tolerances, but it is hard
to get industry-wide acceptance of control strips and proof
certification when, well, there is NO SUCH THING as proof
certification. There is no motivation to print control strips if there
are no official tolerances that everyone can use to know if a proof
passes or not. FOGRA has such a system. IDEAlliance does not.
-Todd Shirley _______________________________________________
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