Re: Fogra Media Wedge v.3.0
Re: Fogra Media Wedge v.3.0
- Subject: Re: Fogra Media Wedge v.3.0
- From: Mike Strickler <email@hidden>
- Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 11:43:40 -0700
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:50:05 +0100
From: Martin Orpen <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: Ugra/Fogra Media Wedge v3.0 [was: Colorsync-users Digest,
Vol 5, Issue 299]
To: email@hidden
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
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On 11 Sep 2008, at 07:05, Mike Strickler wrote:
But to dispel the notion that one cannot get good results with PM5,
I can tell you that I regularly achieve max dE on a full IT8.7/4
against a GRACoL reference (very close to Fogra 39) for all patches
(including the worst 5%) of less than 5, sometimes less than 4,
using PM5 and a few iterations, with avg. dE of all patches in the .
6 range and grey hue error of down around .2 or so. This is just
routine, as are proofs that have smooth gradations and other
"immeasurables." So I just have to throw up my hands and say either
there really was no problem, or if there was I don't know what
caused it and wouldn't know unless I saw it myself.
I'm betting that the reason that you use a "few" iterations is that
the Profilemaker profile will not respond in a favourable way to more
than 3 iterations!
The "no more improvement" point almost never comes that soon; I'd say
that 5 iterations is pretty typical--whether I use PM5 or Color
Manager. I'll be happy to send you the data once I've returned home,
but after that you're on your own, I'm afraid.
My reason for posting was to let other *users* know that using a
*free* CMS is giving me better results than Profilemaker. The last
iteration using the Argyll paper profile gave me these figures for IT8
7.4 chart read with a DTP70:
Great, and I hope others benefit. We haven't found the need here.
Av dE: 0.722
Max dE: 3.725
White dE: 0.304
Gamut: 98.824%
Which is a whole 4dE better on the maximum than I could get from a
paper profile made from the same data using Profilemaker.
The results from Profilemaker might be "good" but they aren't good
enough when 6 dE means your proof has failed and ends up in the bin
instead of going to the client.
Well, this raises a lot of issues that can't be addressed at this
time, at least not by me. As we're in N. America I can't say without
looking it up whether Fogra requires a max dE of 6 for all patches
or for the best 95%, which is a better here--for good reason.
Nonetheless, at the end of an installation we're always safely below
6 for all patches. When I do occasionally get a call that a proof has
failed it is never for max dE and is always some printer issue that
causes a spike in one color channel and tints composed predominately
of that color.
And no European client is going to be impressed with an ISO 12647-7
approval sticker that says Max Peak 5.2 when the tolerance is 6.0 -- I
want to ace the test, not scrape it...
I'm sorry you haven't had the same good results we've had, though I
doubt you or I have the knowledge to compare European and American
clients--a rather abstract concern, I should think. I never asked you
whether this was just your own system (which printer?) or if you
install this product for others and have a larger sample size--I
assume the former. If you do have Color Manager you have an
alternative that is easy to use and gives, for you anyway, more
satisfactory results. I wouldn't get too hung up on PM5--if it
doesn't work for you move on to something else. Good luck.
--
Martin Orpen
Idea Digital Imaging Ltd
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