Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 6, Issue 304
Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 6, Issue 304
- Subject: Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 6, Issue 304
- From: "Jennifer Thompson" <email@hidden>
- Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 15:34:12 -0600
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: NEC or Eizo Monitor; ICS (Mike Strickler)
2. RE: NEC or Eizo Monitor (Roger)
3. Re: NEC or Eizo Monitor (Graeme Gill)
4. Re: NEC or Eizo Monitor (Marco Ugolini)
5. Re: NEC or Eizo Monitor (Rolf Gierling)
6. RE: NEC or Eizo Monitor (Roger)
7. Re: NEC or Eizo Monitor (Andrew Rodney)
8. Re: NEC or Eizo Monitor (Scott Martin)
9. Re: NEC or Eizo Monitor (Klaus Karcher)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 12:32:05 -0800
From: Mike Strickler <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: NEC or Eizo Monitor; ICS
To: email@hidden
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
I should think this product would cost significantly less than the
extra cost of a more uniform monitor...
Mike Strickler
MSP Graphic Services
423 Aaron St. Suite E
Cotati, CA 94931
O: 707.664.1628
C: 707.321.7855
F: 707.939.4542
www.mspgraphics.com
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2009 16:17:32 -0500
> From: Don Hutcheson <email@hidden>
> Subject: Re: NEC or Eizo Monitor
> To: email@hidden
> Message-ID: <email@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> Dan caldwell of ICS just confirmed what I suspected. Here's his email
> to me.
>
>> From: Dan Caldwell <email@hidden>
>> Date: December 1, 2009 11:39:21 AM PST
>> To: Don Hutcheson <email@hidden>
>> Subject: Re: NEC or EIZO Monitor
>>
>> That is correct Don. Remote Director includes Unevenness Correction
>> Mapping (UCM) capabilities as well as virtual 10 bit (V10) to
>> provide 10 bit viewing on any 8 bit display.
>>
>> Currently ICS is vetting the need for a desktop product that would
>> use these technologies without the weight of an entire collaborative
>> proofing application. The application would provide calibration and
>> viewing in a window that employs verification, UCM, V10 and read and
>> write the XMP meta data as defined by the GWG soft proof ticket.
>> www.gwg.org
>
> If anyone thinks they would buy a desktop utility offering monitor
> mapping that works seamlessly in front of Photoshop please put
> pressure on Dan to make a product we all can afford.
>
> I've asked him a hundred times but he's not going to make it just for
> me.
>
> Dan
>
> ........................................................
> Don Hutcheson
> HutchColor, LLC
> Washington, NJ 07882, USA
> office: (908) 689 7403
> cell: (908) 500 0341
> ........................................................
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 22:43:09 -0500
From: Roger <email@hidden>
Subject: RE: NEC or Eizo Monitor
To: 'Bob Frost' <email@hidden>, email@hidden
Message-ID: <000501ca73ca$bb7d4ea0$3277ebe0$@ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Bob,
> It seems to me that this applies equally to monitors. You get what you
> pay for,
>
> Bob Frost.
I hate to differ. I'll be posting the figures for the 24" LED ACD tomorrow
-- I just don't have them with me. But, it passes both IDEAlliance's monitor
certification and ISO-12646 uniformity requirements with flying colors -- no
pun intended. I'd like to believe we get what we pay for too.
Roger
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 15:11:49 +1100
From: Graeme Gill <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: NEC or Eizo Monitor
To: ColorSync <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Roger wrote:
> I hate to differ. I'll be posting the figures for the 24" LED ACD tomorrow
Hmm. I notice that Apple in their infinite wisdom decided to equip
this monitor with only a Mini Display Port connect, rather limiting
what it can be connected to...
Graeme Gill.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 21:01:18 -0800
From: Marco Ugolini <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: NEC or Eizo Monitor
To: ColorSync Users Mailing List <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <C73C861E.1DFF7%email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 12/2/09 8:11 PM, Graeme Gill wrote:
> Roger wrote:
>> I hate to differ. I'll be posting the figures for the 24" LED ACD tomorrow
>
> Hmm. I notice that Apple in their infinite wisdom decided to equip
> this monitor with only a Mini Display Port connect, rather limiting
> what it can be connected to...
I don't intend to question this monitor's performance, which I have heard
praised by many, but that would be my objection too. Plus the glossy
surface, though the impact of reflections is lessened if one uses a higher
luminance.
Marco.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 11:57:30 +0100
From: Rolf Gierling <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: NEC or Eizo Monitor
To: Roger Breton <email@hidden>, colorsync-users
<email@hidden>
Message-ID:
<email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Hello Roger,
Am 03.12.2009 um 04:43 schrieb Roger:
> Bob,
>
>> It seems to me that this applies equally to monitors. You get what
>> you
>> pay for,
>>
>> Bob Frost.
>
> I hate to differ. I'll be posting the figures for the 24" LED ACD
> tomorrow
> -- I just don't have them with me. But, it passes both
> IDEAlliance's monitor
> certification and ISO-12646 uniformity requirements with flying
> colors -- no
> pun intended. I'd like to believe we get what we pay for too.
>
> Roger
Lucky one! Who at Apple guarantees me that an 24" LED ACD passes this
uniformity certification?
What if your display does not achieve this? Would a photographer buy
a camera with, let's say,
10 dead pixels, because it's cheaper?
Contrary to that, my NEC SpectraView Reference 2690 is measured by
hand and comes with a (hand signed)
certificate that states that 25 white points with reference to the
middle on screen meet the tolerance:
Average deltaE* ab under 2.5
Peak deltaE* ab under 4.8
Yes, I can spend hours on testing my equipment, pay for returns and
wait weeks until the
manufacturer returns an exchange (if he does), BUT, if I can earn 50
Dollars an hour,
how long can I do this?
It should be clear that you can't get that extra work for free, and I
want my equipment
to work right out of the box.
My two cents.
Regards
Rolf
-----------------------------------------------------
Multitools
Dipl.-Ing. Rolf Gierling
Colormanagement
Development - Consulting - Distribution
Mariabrunnstr. 16
52064 Aachen
Germany
Tel. +49 (0) 2 41 / 4 01 25 79
Fax. +49 (0) 2 41 / 4 01 25 83
email@hidden
www.multitools-online.de
Author of "Farbmanagement"
3rd Edition July 2006
mitp Verlag, Bonn
ISBN 3-8266-1626-X
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 07:51:00 -0500
From: Roger <email@hidden>
Subject: RE: NEC or Eizo Monitor
To: 'Rolf Gierling' <email@hidden>, 'colorsync-users'
<email@hidden>
Message-ID: <000b01ca7417$43c42bc0$cb4c8340$@ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Hallo Rolf,
I agree the NEC SpectraView 26" is a sehr sho�n display. I agree 100%. And
for you and me, und a large of numbers of demanding users, it is worth every
pfenig.
I will take your word that, out of the box, the NEC arbeits very well.
Aber, as a user, you won't know HOW GUT it arbeits until you actually put it
through some test, das ist richtig, isn't it?
Same for the ACD24. Suppose I calibrate an ACD24 using a fine monitor
calibration/profiling package like ColorEyesDisplay Pro, how do I know for
sure that the calibration meets certain expectations other than apply some
test to it?
Same for the NEC 26"; how do YOU know the monitor meets certain expectations
other than take the time to test it for uniformity conformance or ISO-12646
conformance or some other monitor specifications, even though you are
assured it "works" out of the box? (ignore obvious defects)
Und what guarantee do you have that *alles* NEC SpectraView 26" are perfect,
out of the box? Lucky me, you say? I am not the only one who has find that
the ACD24 was working well out of the box, and, so far, lucky me again,
perhaps, but *alles* ACD24 I have seen and tested (a dozen) worked out of
the box and calibrated well with no obvious defects.
It is your choice, it is your geld. I would very much like to purchase a NEC
SpectraView 26" too. To be honest, I never had the chance of actually seeing
this particular model "in person" but I have worked on its little brother,
the 24" Spectraview and it was not as sho�n as I would have expected (maybe
I saw a poor unit?). Placed side by side with the ACD24, I can't find
reasons to NOT buy the ACD24. But, as you think, I may be biased, aber I
strongly believe that that LED technology is superior to CCFL technology. I
even had the good fortune of comparing the ACD24 next to a LaCie 530
(Samsung XL24 in disguise) and I wasn't convinced the LaCie was worth all
that much either. Sure, there are extra features I would like to see added
to the ACD24 like an internal 10 bit hardware LUT and things like that, but
we know it will not happen :(
All I am saying is that, for the price, this monitor is amazing.
As for connectivity, true, any small Mac and minis that don't have a
displayport are at a disadvantage but for any other machine, it is just a
matter of putting in a new video card. Again, more money, I know. But, on a
PC, at least, a video card does not sell for millions of dollars! For $150
to $200, one can pick up a quite potent unit with both DVI and Displayport
connectors.
MfG / Roger
> Hello Roger,
>
> Am 03.12.2009 um 04:43 schrieb Roger:
>
> > Bob,
> >
> >> It seems to me that this applies equally to monitors. You get what
> >> you
> >> pay for,
> >>
> >> Bob Frost.
> >
> > I hate to differ. I'll be posting the figures for the 24" LED ACD
> > tomorrow
> > -- I just don't have them with me. But, it passes both
> > IDEAlliance's monitor
> > certification and ISO-12646 uniformity requirements with flying
> > colors -- no
> > pun intended. I'd like to believe we get what we pay for too.
> >
> > Roger
>
> Lucky one! Who at Apple guarantees me that an 24" LED ACD passes this
> uniformity certification?
> What if your display does not achieve this? Would a photographer buy
> a camera with, let's say,
> 10 dead pixels, because it's cheaper?
>
> Contrary to that, my NEC SpectraView Reference 2690 is measured by
> hand and comes with a (hand signed)
> certificate that states that 25 white points with reference to the
> middle on screen meet the tolerance:
> Average deltaE* ab under 2.5
> Peak deltaE* ab under 4.8
>
> Yes, I can spend hours on testing my equipment, pay for returns and
> wait weeks until the
> manufacturer returns an exchange (if he does), BUT, if I can earn 50
> Dollars an hour,
> how long can I do this?
>
> It should be clear that you can't get that extra work for free, and I
> want my equipment
> to work right out of the box.
>
> My two cents.
>
> Regards
>
> Rolf
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
> Multitools
> Dipl.-Ing. Rolf Gierling
>
> Colormanagement
> Development - Consulting - Distribution
>
> Mariabrunnstr. 16
> 52064 Aachen
> Germany
>
> Tel. +49 (0) 2 41 / 4 01 25 79
> Fax. +49 (0) 2 41 / 4 01 25 83
> email@hidden
> www.multitools-online.de
>
> Author of "Farbmanagement"
> 3rd Edition July 2006
> mitp Verlag, Bonn
> ISBN 3-8266-1626-X
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 09:24:18 -0700
From: Andrew Rodney <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: NEC or Eizo Monitor
To: ColorSync Users Mailing List <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Dec 2, 2009, at 10:01 PM, Marco Ugolini wrote:
Plus the glossy surface, though the impact of reflections is lessened if one uses a higher luminance.
Glossy is a deal breaker for me.
Andrew Rodney
http://www.digitaldog.net/
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 10:41:06 -0600
From: Scott Martin <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: NEC or Eizo Monitor
To: ColorSync Users Mailing List <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Dec 3, 2009, at 10:24 AM, Andrew Rodney wrote:
> Glossy is a deal breaker for me.
It was for me too when they first came out and I definitely had a knee-jerk reaction to them. But I've had to work on these displays at a bunch of my client's sites. I have to say from hands-on experience in demanding situations, it really isn't as bad as I thought, especially when the environment has well placed lighting. They do make obvious when a location has bad lighting with rear glare and the like. As so many people still need to think about upgrading to higher quality lighting and careful placement of that lighting, I think it's not such a bad thing if these displays push them in the right direction.
Still, the glass surface takes me back to my days as a commercial drum scan operator when I wore black shirts to minimize screen reflections and enhance shadow detail perception. Not a bad idea today.
As a bonus, the tempered glass also protects the LCD. Not only can people touch the screen all they like, you can apply as much force as you like when cleaning them.
Regardless, I'll probably hold out for matte versions of the Cinema displays and will continue buying matte MacBookPros as long as they are available.
Scott Martin
www.on-sight.com
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:49:02 +0100
From: Klaus Karcher <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: NEC or Eizo Monitor
To: colorsync-users <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Roger wrote:
> As for connectivity, true, any small Mac and minis that don't have a
> displayport are at a disadvantage but for any other machine, it is just a
> matter of putting in a new video card.
In the meantime there is a variety of adapters and cables from/to MiniDP
available:
<http://estore.circuitassembly.com/categories/Adapters/>
Klaus
------------------------------
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