Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 7, Issue 94
Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 7, Issue 94
- Subject: Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 7, Issue 94
- From: "M2 Media Studios, Inc." <email@hidden>
- Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 15:10:03 -0400
On Apr 14, 2010, at 3:03 PM, email@hidden wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: generic CMYK (Randy Zaucha)
> 2. Re: generic CMYK (Marco Ugolini)
> 3. Re: generic CMYK (Pylant, Brian)
> 4. Re: Real World Color Management, Second Edition? (Pylant, Brian)
> 5. Re: Printing Industries Color Management Conference / Other
> Learning Opportunities (Pylant, Brian)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 19:57:18 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Randy Zaucha <email@hidden>
> Subject: Re: generic CMYK
> To: email@hidden
> Message-ID: <email@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Generic CMYK, that's rich.
> If a printing company does not ask their client for RGB files, then they certainly are not color experts. At every printing company I ran a drum scanner at, we knew exactly how to convert RGB files to "our CMYK."
> Highlight detail is critical for image quality and only the guys at the plant know what size the diffuse highlight detail dots are for the press and paper being used. They also know how much ink can make the blackest black on the sheet. Achieving quality images on a printing press is a battle to keep the brights bright, darks dark and still hold all detail.
> Printer's who tell their clients to give them CMYK files set themselves up for "generic quality" work. One would assume that there are no color separation experts at those companies to perform color separation. The only exception would be letting the client convert using the profile from a very well profiled press.
> Randy ZauchaManaged Color
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 02:08:30 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Marco Ugolini <email@hidden>
> Subject: Re: generic CMYK
> To: ColorSync Forum <email@hidden>
> Message-ID:
> <email@hidden>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Randy Zaucha wrote:
>
>> Printer's who tell their clients to give them CMYK files
>> set themselves up for "generic quality" work.
>
> Not necessarily. Only if they ask for "CMYK files" without specifying WHICH CMYK, namely which print specifications they commit themselves to matching on their presses (such as those reflected in an ICC profile like US Web Coated (SWOP) v2, for example).
>
> Any printing company worth their salt ought to be able to offer stable print conditions to their customers, ones that don't vary from day to day, week to week, etc.
>
> As long as some form of reliable and consistent process control is in place at the printers, and as long as it produces known print results, then a knowledgeable operator can perform viable separations on the client side.
>
>> One would assume that there are no color separation experts
>> at those companies to perform color separation.
>> The only exception would be letting the client convert
>> using the profile from a very well profiled press.
>
> Ideal, but not practical in the great majority of cases. Most often, the best that can be expected is that the print vendor is actually able to match a known set of print specifications on a regular and dependable basis. Better still if those print specifications are those reflected in a widely-used CMYK ICC output profile.
>
> My bottom line is that the printers should not expect the client to trust them blindly, not a knowledgeable client at least, or one who has a knowledgeable production person taking care of his work for him/her. The best results are those that are closest to what the client wants, not to what the printers find it convenient to provide, which latter thing can prove to be rather arbitrary.
>
> ICC color-managed workflows offer more control to the client side over the final quality of the work on the printed sheet, and a savvy client should hold on to that advantage and the edge that it provides, not give it up in return for unclear results.
>
> The printers ought to be the ones to adapt to that reality -- instead of pushing to have the balance turned the other way around, specially if this ends up limiting the client's options by failing to provide reliable output within reasonably set tolerances.
>
> Some printers don't like to be pinned down to a known set of expectations, lest they lose their perceived "competitive edge". My advice to the client, when I meet such a printer, is to look for another vendor.
>
> Marco Ugolini
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 10:44:08 -0400
> From: "Pylant, Brian" <email@hidden>
> Subject: Re: generic CMYK
> To: ColorSync Forum <email@hidden>
> Message-ID: <C7EB4CF8.6DA0%email@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>> If a printing company does not ask their client for RGB files, then they
>> certainly are not color experts.
>
> IMO that is a very broad generalization that is not entirely true in the
> real world. In a perfect scenario the customer would not only have a firm
> grasp of color management and print production, but also have the proper
> equipment, environment and skills to softproof their RGB files in the CMYK
> space they would eventually be converted to, ensuring a predictable result.*
>
> However... I can't speak for your customers but I can say that the majority
> of mine do not fit that description. If we were to ask for RGB files we
> would get a litany of complaints about how much the color changed when we
> converted to CMYK. Just like we do now, when folks send us RGB despite our
> recommendation for CMYK.
>
> * From a designers' perspective I'm still not entirely sure of the benefits
> of sending RGB to a printer if you know the CMYK space they are working in.
> If they're going to end up converting to the same CMYK you would convert to,
> then what does it matter who does the conversion? How is sending them an RGB
> file superior, or otherwise in the domain of "color experts"?
>
> If anything, I'd think quite the opposite especially if the design does have
> a good understanding of print production -- not only can they convert to the
> correct CMYK color space, but then also make post-conversion adjustments
> specifically tailored to reduce the likelihood of certain press results. One
> example would be full-color neutral images; if converted to the same CMYK as
> the rest of the document, with no further adjustments the CMY channels will
> almost certainly be too strong, increasing the chances of a color cast when
> printed. No way I'd send such an image to anyone as RGB.
>
> I think there's room for both points of view (supply RGB vs supply CMYK),
> neither one is superior or more "expert" than the other. As with most
> things, there are no absolutes and it depends greatly on the specific
> situation (the skill and experience of the designer, communication with the
> printer, etc.)
>
> Brian
>
> PS. I find that most people who proclaim themselves to be experts rarely
> are.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 10:46:59 -0400
> From: "Pylant, Brian" <email@hidden>
> Subject: Re: Real World Color Management, Second Edition?
> To: "email@hidden"
> <email@hidden>
> Message-ID: <C7EB4DA3.6DA4%email@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Bump... anyone?
>
>
>> To those who have read both: how much new material is in the second edition
>> compared to the original? I never bought the second edition, been
>> considering it... just not sure about new content, and it's already six
>> years old at this point.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 10:47:34 -0400
> From: "Pylant, Brian" <email@hidden>
> Subject: Re: Printing Industries Color Management Conference / Other
> Learning Opportunities
> To: "email@hidden"
> <email@hidden>
> Message-ID: <C7EB4DC6.6DA6%email@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Bump... anyone?
>
>
>> Has anyone attended one of these in the past? Any good/bad/neutral feedback?
>>
>> http://www.printing.org/page/4463
>>
>> (Scroll down to the bottom for info on the 2010 conference)
>>
>> Are there any other recommended conferences or seminars that are highly
>> regarded specifically for color management topics? We've spent the last year
>> working on tighter color controls in our prepress and pressroom operations,
>> and I'm always eager to learn more about what we can do to improve our
>> processes and workflows.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> End of Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 7, Issue 94
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