Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 7, Issue 140
Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 7, Issue 140
- Subject: Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 7, Issue 140
- From: email@hidden
- Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 17:51:46 +0200
This is it.
http://www.fogra.org/products-en/pdfs/analog-e/Light_Indicator.pdf
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Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 7, Issue 140
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Today's Topics:
1. Good demonstration of metamerism? (Ben Goren)
2. Re: Good demonstration of metamerism? (Marco Ugolini)
3. Re: Good demonstration of metamerism? (Ben Goren)
4. Re: Good demonstration of metamerism? (Robin Myers)
5. RE: Good demonstration of metamerism? (Roger Breton)
6. Re: Good demonstration of metamerism? (Marco Ugolini)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:29:15 -0700
From: Ben Goren <email@hidden>
Subject: Good demonstration of metamerism?
To: colorsync user list <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I'd like to have a good demonstration of metamerism. At the least, I'd
like a pair of side-by-side color patches that look the same under
sunlight but radically different under fluorescent light. A pocket-sized
target with several different such patches would be ideal.
I don't think there exists an inexpensive off-the-shelf item that meets
that description, but I don't mind creating one.
So...can anybody offer any suggestions as to where to find items
(especially paint chips) that can be easily matched by an inkjet under
daylight but that fail miserably under other lighting conditions? If you
have personal experience of a match that gave you lots of trouble, I'd
especially like to hear about it.
I'm aware of those ``check the light quality'' targets that are out there.
That's the basic idea of what I'm looking for, but I'm more looking for a
general demonstration and educational tool.
Thanks,
b&
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 21:29:53 -0700
From: Marco Ugolini <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: Good demonstration of metamerism?
To: Ben Goren <email@hidden>
Cc: ColorSync Users Mailing List <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <C839ACD1.20149%email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 6/12/10 2:29 PM, Ben Goren wrote:
> I'd like to have a good demonstration of metamerism. At the least, I'd
like a
> pair of side-by-side color patches that look the same under sunlight but
> radically different under fluorescent light. A pocket-sized target with
> several different such patches would be ideal.
>
> I don't think there exists an inexpensive off-the-shelf item that meets
that
> description, but I don't mind creating one.
>
> So...can anybody offer any suggestions as to where to find items
(especially
> paint chips) that can be easily matched by an inkjet under daylight but
that
> fail miserably under other lighting conditions? If you have personal
> experience of a match that gave you lots of trouble, I'd especially like
to
> hear about it.
>
> I'm aware of those ``check the light quality'' targets that are out
there.
> That's the basic idea of what I'm looking for, but I'm more looking for
a
> general demonstration and educational tool.
>
> Thanks,
>
> b& _______________________________________________
Just to make sure: you already know that when TWO specimens viewed by an
individual with normal color vision under ONE same light source match one
another, that is called a "metameric match", and when they don't it's
called
an instance of "metameric failure" -- correct?
In other words, "metamerism" does not indicate the DIFFERENCE between the
two specimens: it indicates their similarity under a specific light
source.
In other words, it's a POSITIVE phenomenon, without which the only
possible
way to attain a color match would be to use exactly the same materials as
the original (including the pigments).
People often use the word "metamerism" to indicate visual phenomena that
are
more appropriately referred to otherwise (namely, color inconstancy), thus
conferring to the term "metamerism" an inappropriate NEGATIVE quality,
besides using it within an incorrect context.
I'm just trying to make sure that one starts off with a clear idea of the
meaning of the terms. If the terms were already clear, then please forgive
the intrusion.
Best regards.
Marco Ugolini
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 00:52:32 -0700
From: Ben Goren <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: Good demonstration of metamerism?
To: ColorSync Users Mailing List <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On 2010 Jun 12, at 9:29 PM, Marco Ugolini wrote:
> Just to make sure: you already know that when TWO specimens viewed by an
> individual with normal color vision under ONE same light source match
one
> another, that is called a "metameric match", and when they don't it's
called
> an instance of "metameric failure" -- correct?
Yes, of course. It's that property I wish to demonstrate: how two samples
can be a metameric match under a particular light source, but a metameric
failure under a different light source. And, ideally, with enough
different colors that it's obvious that it's not just a peculiar property
of the particular shade of (e.g.) green that I happen to be showing, but
that it's something that can happen with nearly any color.
What I want, essentially, is to be able to say, ``Come over here to the
window and have a look at this. See how these colors on top are all pretty
much the same, and these on the bottom are all different? Right. Now,
let's step over here underneath this fluorescent light. And, hey, whaddya
know? The ones on the bottom now match, and it's the ones on top that are
all different. No, it's not magic; it's metamerism.''
Cheers,
b&
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 07:56:02 -0700
From: Robin Myers <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: Good demonstration of metamerism?
To: email@hidden
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
You should look at the Munsell Interactive Learning Kit at
http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?ID=933, I think it has what you
want.
Part of the kit is the "Metamerism test kit", which consists of several
blue patches which demonstrate metameric matches and mismatches, depending
on the light.
There are other interesting parts of the entire package that you may find
useful in educating your customers.
Regards,
Robin Myers
On Jun 13, 2010, at 12:52 AM, Ben Goren wrote:
> On 2010 Jun 12, at 9:29 PM, Marco Ugolini wrote:
>
>> Just to make sure: you already know that when TWO specimens viewed by
an
>> individual with normal color vision under ONE same light source match
one
>> another, that is called a "metameric match", and when they don't it's
called
>> an instance of "metameric failure" -- correct?
>
> Yes, of course. It's that property I wish to demonstrate: how two
samples can be a metameric match under a particular light source, but a
metameric failure under a different light source. And, ideally, with
enough different colors that it's obvious that it's not just a peculiar
property of the particular shade of (e.g.) green that I happen to be
showing, but that it's something that can happen with nearly any color.
>
> What I want, essentially, is to be able to say, ``Come over here to the
window and have a look at this. See how these colors on top are all pretty
much the same, and these on the bottom are all different? Right. Now,
let's step over here underneath this fluorescent light. And, hey, whaddya
know? The ones on the bottom now match, and it's the ones on top that are
all different. No, it's not magic; it's metamerism.''
>
> Cheers,
>
> b& _______________________________________________
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 12:26:35 -0400
From: Roger Breton <email@hidden>
Subject: RE: Good demonstration of metamerism?
To: 'Robin Myers' <email@hidden>,
email@hidden
Message-ID: <004101cb0b15$31028aa0$93079fe0$@videotron.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I heard through the grapevine that X-Rite might be considering
ressucitating
the old gretagmacbeth metameric ruler.
When that happens, I know I want one :-)
Best / Roger
> -----Original Message-----
> From: colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=email@hidden
> [mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=email@hidden] On
> Behalf Of Robin Myers
> Sent: 13 juin 2010 10:56
> To: email@hidden
> Subject: Re: Good demonstration of metamerism?
>
> You should look at the Munsell Interactive Learning Kit at
> http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?ID=933, I think it has what
> you want.
>
> Part of the kit is the "Metamerism test kit", which consists of several
blue
> patches which demonstrate metameric matches and mismatches, depending
> on the light.
>
> There are other interesting parts of the entire package that you may
find
> useful in educating your customers.
>
> Regards,
>
> Robin Myers
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 12:36:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Marco Ugolini <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: Good demonstration of metamerism?
To: Ben Goren <email@hidden>, ColorSync Users Mailing
List
<email@hidden>
Message-ID:
<email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Ben Goren wrote:
>Yes, of course. It's that property I wish to demonstrate: how two samples
can be a metameric match under a particular light source, but a metameric
failure under a different light source.
Understood. No harm intended.
Best of luck with your project.
Please let us all know how you ended up putting it together.
Best regards.
Marco Ugolini
------------------------------
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End of Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 7, Issue 140
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